Still no shuffle editing

[ricecrispies]

People have been requesting shuffle editing for years. It really is essential for working on the structure of a composition. It's not just Pro Tools that has it. Reaper has had it for donkey's years, and it's not as if Cockos has got a huge army of programmers working on fancy features. Why not in Live?

At the very least you could enable ctrl-click to add to or subtract from a selection in the arrangement timeline. That would at least make a kind of shuffle editing possible. If you have shift-click selection, why not ctrl-click?

[jonljacobi]

This is actually the first request I've seen. What exactly is shuffle editing?

[Tarekith]

You can for instance remove a clip from arrange view, and all the audio after it in the timeline will slide over to fill the new gap. That’s just one use of it, there’s a few more.

[jonljacobi]

I’ve heard of slip and ripple editing, but never shuffle. When you shuffle cards, you mix them up. When you shuffle along, you just don’t lift your feet. Not sure why you would call it shuffle editing.

[Angstrom]

I think "Shuffle edit" is a protools term.

Logic, Cubase and Studio One all have something similar and perhaps better, certainly better named.
https://www.musicradar.com/how-to/how-t ... r-workflow

it's a very useful feature that I really wish Ableton had.
In Ableton if I want to test out a potential arrangment idea I have to use Cut time, copy/ paste ... and I paste my unused chunks at the far far end of the timeline. Then I delete time to remove gaps, then I add markers to tell me what everything is. And if it doesn't work I have to revert from a save.

Its very weird that Live never made arrangement flexible and easy to edit. Ableton's big innovation was making electronic music non-linear, with Session. That was their big thing.

They never made arrangement as flexible as Session, they stuck with a linear tape metaphor. Moving sections around is abominable in Ableton Live. Moving chunks and trying out alternative arrangements or mixes is hellishly destructive and inflexible.

Look at Studio One's scratchpad feature (alternative mixes) and "arrangertrack" and think about how Ableton owned that shit back in the day, and just let it go!!

[jonljacobi]

I only occasionally have the need or urge to change arrangements, but it could certainly be made easier in the arranger. A slip mode might be nice. I suppose they feel that’s what session mode is for and that by the time you transfer it, you should be pretty much set.

[Angstrom]

No session can't handle regions.

I've been using Ableton since version 4. If session could handle what was required then it would be fine. Session clips can't encapsulate multi-events, and session scenes can't contain multiple contiguous clips.

If a scene could contain a play-order of clips (in a track), and the scene opened and closed - then there might be some chance of arranging.

Look at the competitions scratchpads, and arranger tracks. They exist for a reason.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7KVSF-lhQI
Non linear editing in the arrangement.
Consider how you would need to create a temporary arrangement in Live to sequence Clip1, clip 5, clip 2, clip1, clip 3. You would need to go to Session, set follow actions, and trigger a scene while the arrange plays.
If that sequence needs changing you'd need to manually text edit the follow actions.

Now look at how that video shows connection between temp scratch-pads and arrangement tests..
Try accomplishing that in Session

By the way if you ever find yourself starting a sentence with "I don't do or need X, but I think it's fine without X" then perhaps stop and reconsider that logic.

[jonljacobi]

No session can't handle regions.

I've been using Ableton since version 4. If session could handle what was required then it would be fine. Session clips can't encapsulate multi-events, and session scenes can't contain multiple contiguous clips.

If a scene could contain a play-order of clips (in a track), and the scene opened and closed - then there might be some chance of arranging.

Look at the competitions scratchpads, and arranger tracks. They exist for a reason.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7KVSF-lhQI
Non linear editing in the arrangement.
Consider how you would need to create a temporary arrangement in Live to sequence Clip1, clip 5, clip 2, clip1, clip 3. You would need to go to Session, set follow actions, and trigger a scene while the arrange plays.
If that sequence needs changing you'd need to manually text edit the follow actions.

Now look at how that video shows connection between temp scratch-pads and arrangement tests..
Try accomplishing that in Session

By the way if you ever find yourself starting a sentence with "I don't do or need X, but I think it's fine without X" then perhaps stop and reconsider that logic.

Exactly what are you referring to?