Easier-to-see mixer fader handles

[Scoox]

Here's a design which, in my opinion, would make the fader handles easier to see and use. Comment and vote, thanks.



In this example, on tracks 4, 5 and 7 the fader handle is very hard too see. That's the "Mid Dark" stock theme. Luckily this can be changed if you edit the theme file, but the littering of numbers and tick marks around the handle still prevents it from standing out. By putting the numbers one one side, far from the handle, and the handle on the other, the handle stands out much more.

[slow.robot]

it doesn’t impact me much since I do almost all of my work in Arrangement view—but I voted for it, because I think it’s a good idea. it also looks nice and clean. nice work!

[jestermgee]

I don't see it as an issue really. It's easy enough to see and it doesn't cover over the actual number scale, rather sits in the pins which saves having to have that distracting white line you have in your example across the VU meter which would give possibly a false impression that is where the level should be. The mouse pointer hides when you click/drag the level control so isn't ever in the way.

Also, your example actually takes up a little more space which could be far less efficient in a larger set when the tracks are all sized down.

So not something I really feel is worthy of change.

[Scoox]

It's easy enough to see

I don't discount the possibility that some people on certain monitors of a sufficiently low PPI may find those faders easier to see than others. On my 43" 4K display at 125% scaling, sitting about 3 ft from my screen, using the "Mid Dark" theme, I need to look twice before I can make out the triangles. Most of the stock themes use colors that give poor contrast of the triangles against the background. If you casually glance at the mixer, you won't see a distinct "series of dots" like you do on real mixers where the fader caps stand out like a sore thumb. This series of dots is what enables you to visually grasp the state of the mixer, like a photograph. I want to prove this to you: look at the following pictures, you should be clever enough to see my point:



The problem is that there is too much going on on the right-hand side of the fader. We have the tick marks, the numbers, the triangle, which from a distance is almost indistinguishable from the surrounding ticks and numbers. At least putting the numbers on one side and the ticks and the triangle on the other, and using colors that contrast a bit more (basically light on dark or vice versa) would help a lot.

it doesn't cover over the actual number scale, rather sits in the pins which saves having to have that distracting white line you have in your example across the VU meter which would give possibly a false impression that is where the level should be.

and...

Also, your example actually takes up a little more space which could be far less efficient in a larger set when the tracks are all sized down.

There you have some valid points. What about this?:



This layout can actually save width since the triangle can be pushed closer to the right edge of the track without looking cramped, whereas the numbers being too close to the edge wouldn't look right. That said, in my original mock-up the overall track width is exactly the same as the non-mock-up tracks.

The idea is that the triangle should not completely cover the tick mark, and that it should not be too close to the numbers because it looks bad and cluttered. I think this last mock-up addresses this alright.

The mouse pointer hides when you click/drag the level control so isn't ever in the way.

That's totally true, oops

[Scoox]

I don't see it as an issue really. It's easy enough to see and it doesn't cover over the actual number scale, rather sits in the pins which saves having to have that distracting white line you have in your example across the VU meter which would give possibly a false impression that is where the level should be. The mouse pointer hides when you click/drag the level control so isn't ever in the way.

Also, your example actually takes up a little more space which could be far less efficient in a larger set when the tracks are all sized down.

So not something I really feel is worthy of change.

I've updated my OP to take on board your feedback, thanks.

[slow.robot]

I liked the little vertical line in the original proposal, but I agree it could be confusing if you don’t know what it’s for. maybe show that when the fader arrow is being moved, and hide otherwise?

[Scoox]

I liked the little vertical line in the original proposal, but I agree it could be confusing if you don’t know what it’s for. maybe show that when the fader arrow is being moved, and hide otherwise?

Do you mean horizontal line across the meter? I personally don't mind it either, it could be shown only while moving the fader. In this case either solution would work for me and I don't mind. I just want to be able to see my fader handles easily. I suspect Ableton are more likely to implement a change that doesn't depart too much from their classic look and feel, that's why I changed the mock-ups a bit.

[slow.robot]

I liked the little vertical line in the original proposal, but I agree it could be confusing if you don’t know what it’s for. maybe show that when the fader arrow is being moved, and hide otherwise?

Do you mean horizontal line across the meter? I personally don't mind it either, it could be shown only while moving the fader. In this case either solution would work for me and I don't mind. I just want to be able to see my fader handles easily. I suspect Ableton are more likely to implement a change that doesn't depart too much from their classic look and feel, that's why I changed the mock-ups a bit.

right you are. I can’t even blame it on a deficiency in caffeine intake today.

[jonljacobi]

To be honest, I always use the value so the marker doesn’t bother me. That’s not a no to your idea.

[Scoox]

To be honest, I always use the value so the marker doesn’t bother me. That’s not a no to your idea.

Do you mean you type in the value? Your you click and drag the numeric value next to the fader? If the latter, that works too... some times. Depending on the track height and width, Live will hide the number. Also, I think the idea of the faders is to provide a birds-eye view of your mix (of course this assumes proper gain staging). I think faders are an extra visual cue to make getting around the mixer easier. Personally, I would like to be able to click and drag on the actual level meter or the fader to adjust the level. At the moment that is not possible in Ableton. When I click a fader, the fader jumps to the click position. I don't want it to jump, I want it to stay where it is, and only move when I start moving the mouse. I really don't understand why anybody would want faders to jump, but if needed, it should only happen when holding down a modifier key. It's kinda dangerous...

Faders in Arrangement View are, albeit somewhat small, perfect. I wish the Session View faders could work like that.

[gavopp]

+1 for marker on left, with line acros the meter, Even the triangle bigger.

[snakedogman]

I don't think Ableton will ever change this. I mean, the whole software still looks basically the same as it did in version 1, even though they've very subtly tweaked the interface over the years, I don't think they've changed any of the basic look of any of the main elements and I don't think they ever will.

[Scoox]

I don't think Ableton will ever change this. I mean, the whole software still looks basically the same as it did in version 1, even though they've very subtly tweaked the interface over the years, I don't think they've changed any of the basic look of any of the main elements and I don't think they ever will.

Never say never, nothing's set in stone, especially software. Adhering to a consistent UI and UX design language is very important and Ableton are known for being very good at that. That said, the user interface should be designed to work for the user, not the other way around. It should be easy to see and use and I feel mixer faders is one area where there is room for improvement. To be fair though, mixer faders are different than any other fader in Live because they have dB markings unlike other faders which at best have a number next to or underneath them to show the current param value, so a slight deviation from Ableton's generic fader look and feel shouldn't ruffle anyone's feathers.