Will Live ever get "Sandbox for Plugins" feature?

[spanktron]

Bitwig has it and i think also Wavelab have this Sandbox for the 3rd party plugins that
lets plugins crash without crashing the whole DAW with them.

Don`t shoot me as i am no programmer and dont know how doable it is and how it works but any chance Ableton will add this in the Future?

Right now i am having way above average number of crashes with Live 11 in Big Sur . And while i know its "not abletons fault"
i would still dream of a version where it does not crash cause of plugins used.

[jonljacobi]

I doubt it. Personally, if a plug-in crashes my DAW or just crashes, I get rid of it and use something else. That said, I can't even remember the last time Live crashed on because of a plug-in. I'm still Intel-based though.

[Mark Williams]

Using Big Sur and now Monteray, I have not encountered any crashes caused by any plugin.

[Machinesworking]

It's a great feature in Bitwig. I've been collecting plug ins for 20 years now, so it's always possible for one to be behind too many versions by mistake or become incompatible with something on my system. It's pretty cool in Bitwig to watch it crash, know exactly which plug in it was, and then deal with it.

I can't think of a logical reason not to have the option beyond the effort it takes to implement it, besides selfish reasons like not owning many plug ins, or not caring because you haven't had any issues yet.

[jlgrimes]

Bitwig has it and i think also Wavelab have this Sandbox for the 3rd party plugins that
lets plugins crash without crashing the whole DAW with them.

Don`t shoot me as i am no programmer and dont know how doable it is and how it works but any chance Ableton will add this in the Future?

Right now i am having way above average number of crashes with Live 11 in Big Sur . And while i know its "not abletons fault"
i would still dream of a version where it does not crash cause of plugins used.

Probably very hard to truly implement and if so, I'm guessing it would need to be done in a way of adding extra overhead.

That said I'm all for making Ableton more stable with plugins and also more efficient.

[spanktron]

It's a great feature in Bitwig. I've been collecting plug ins for 20 years now, so it's always possible for one to be behind too many versions by mistake or become incompatible with something on my system. It's pretty cool in Bitwig to watch it crash, know exactly which plug in it was, and then deal with it.

I can't think of a logical reason not to have the option beyond the effort it takes to implement it, besides selfish reasons like not owning many plug ins, or not caring because you haven't had any issues yet.

I hear ya. Well i hope also

[spanktron]

Using Big Sur and now Monteray, I have not encountered any crashes caused by any plugin.

I imagine developers of cars saying "i personally never had an accident. Lets not invent and use airbags"

[spanktron]

Bitwig has it and i think also Wavelab have this Sandbox for the 3rd party plugins that
lets plugins crash without crashing the whole DAW with them.

Don`t shoot me as i am no programmer and dont know how doable it is and how it works but any chance Ableton will add this in the Future?

Right now i am having way above average number of crashes with Live 11 in Big Sur . And while i know its "not abletons fault"
i would still dream of a version where it does not crash cause of plugins used.

Probably very hard to truly implement and if so, I'm guessing it would need to be done in a way of adding extra overhead.

That said I'm all for making Ableton more stable with plugins and also more efficient.

If i remember correctly a few years back i asked this to the support and someone answered me in a long long answer that in short said "its pretty hard to do". But i am not 100% sure anymore that my memory is not playing games with me tbh. Been a few years.

This feature one of the things i miss in Ableton and envy in Wavelab and Bitwig (don`t know which other daws have it also?)

[spanktron]

It's a great feature in Bitwig. I've been collecting plug ins for 20 years now, so it's always possible for one to be behind too many versions by mistake or become incompatible with something on my system. It's pretty cool in Bitwig to watch it crash, know exactly which plug in it was, and then deal with it.

I can't think of a logical reason not to have the option beyond the effort it takes to implement it, besides selfish reasons like not owning many plug ins, or not caring because you haven't had any issues yet.

I hear ya. I also have some older ones but i am a bit pissed cause now in Big sur i cant even use 32lives in order to bridge the older ones cause 32bit is a no go from Big Sur and on.
This is one of the things i like Windows better even if that doesnt mean that i would not go back cause of this reason alone.
In windows you can have 20 year old apps working.
Apple always has to "cut the roots to the past" somehow as if its always the only way to go.

Whatever. I think i need to organize and get some Mac mini or something for the older things so i at least have them functional somewhere
though i am not a big fan of having to keep two computers up to date all the time but on my new one i keep opening Project after project where
Plugin X is not opening or Plugin Y i cant even install cause its too old etc etc . Then i have to go to the old laptop , open project, bounce the tracks with these plugins , export and import into my new system. What a pain in the ......

[spanktron]

I doubt it. Personally, if a plug-in crashes my DAW or just crashes, I get rid of it and use something else. That said, I can't even remember the last time Live crashed on because of a plug-in. I'm still Intel-based though.

If it crashes by a 150-200 euro plugin would you just get rid of it and find something else? Or look for the cause to make sure? Cause i always do the later of the two options. Also some plugins are unique. Not many but some are.
The crashes i experienced were not specific plugins causing it. It might crashs while scanning and when you reopen it asks

"Crashed while scanning Plugin X. Re-scan or Skip?" and if i hit rescan and it crashed on another but not with the same plugin.

Now i experienced some crashes but it is on far less than before 11.1. For example Phoscyon from D16 is not compatible yet.
However i did not know this cause many D16 Are compatible so i thought "a yes. Phoscyon. I miss it!" and installed it. Everything seemed nice until i opened it in Live. When i click on it it Crashes Live. Every time. I was only then that i researched and realized its not compatible yet.
So this makes me conclude that before 11.1 it was a mixture of non updated plugins and Live`s fault and now it is more some individual plugins (i hope)

Having said that , i am intel based also. With 11.1 it`s gotten a lot better.
However,, i still find it so much more advanced as a way of thinking and solution to have this sandbox feature and Bitwig and Wavelab show that its not only possible but the future

[Machinesworking]

A start would be to have a plug in manager.
As it stands we just attempt to instal a plug in, have it skip the errant plug in for us, and have no access to the process.

[dolomick]

I want sandboxing so badly. Make it happen Ableton. Bitwig is really coming up on you fast.

[jlgrimes]

I want sandboxing so badly. Make it happen Ableton. Bitwig is really coming up on you fast.

I use a few different DAWS, (Studio One, Ableton, FL, Reason, Reaper)

The only one with sandboxing is Reason but that is only for REs (their own plugin format which is probably much easier to implement as they created the rules). That said i have not even recalled a time where a RE crashed.

I find Ableton somewhere average/above average in the pack in terms of CPU performance/stability.

Studio One crashes about as much as Ableton and recovers about similarly from them. Its CPU performance might only be about a tad bit better but the way it handles GUI scaling is pretty bad (Ableton is the best here as it dont have these issues at all).

FL is probably more stable but it has the same scaling issues, and it doesnt have a good freezing feature.

Reason crashes less as well but it has more pops and clicks than any DAW I've worked with and it has no track freeze. At buffer sizes like 128 I get pops and clicks, where other DAWS perform great.

Reaper is the best in terms of performance. That said the crashes Ive had with it can be the most brutal and soul crushing.


Speaking of Bitwig, it looks like they will be one of the first DAWS that support CLAP. Im curious to see how that will be in terms of performance and stability. Reaper is also on board to implement. Ableton is rumored to have had discussions with the designers but havent committed. If Bitwigs/U-he implementation turns out to be successful, I think this will be another format Ableton will need to play catchup on.


From reading up a bit on Sandboxing, it appears to use more resources, and possibly increase latency so that might explain why it isnt universally implemented. I wonder if the problem of better stability has to do more with a better interpretation of the VST spec. Thats why i wonder if the CLAP will help with stability as what is touted by Bitwig and UHE as being Open Source, should make the interpretation/implementation easier and thus more stable and efficient. That said it could be much different in practice.

[FurkanTopal]

I doubt it. Personally, if a plug-in crashes my DAW or just crashes, I get rid of it and use something else. That said, I can't even remember the last time Live crashed on because of a plug-in. I'm still Intel-based though.

How do you specify which plugin gives you the crash?

[FurkanTopal]

This is the most important topic here and they should bring the sandbox technology as soon as possible. Ableton crashes all the time! And moreover, Bitwig can open an ALS file which Ableton can't open!!! This is ridiculous!