A word from ableton about MIDI, and more.

[Gerhard]

Hello everybody,

many requests to this forum are for MIDI clips. Most are asking for basic MIDI playback, some for more advanced MIDI capabilities. Others are afraid that Live will end up complicated and cluttered like other sequencer programs when MIDI is included.

Let me first respond to your concern about Live getting too big. Before we implement a new feature, we need to spend a lot of time figuring out the details. For instance, we have to make sure the new feature will not be in the user's way while he / she is not using it. Most importantly, the feature must "feel" good, it must contribute to the overall fun of using the program. We don't want to add the feature before we have answers to those questions, and end up with a half-grown solution.

As you can imagine, even humble MIDI support is a feature that raises a lot of questions. Working out the answers will be great fun, and we look forward to doing it. I am afraid it will not happen very soon, though. We have literally hundrets of items on the to-do list that all require loads of thinking, not to mention development time. Most of these items fall under the "improvement" and "completion" categories. Some of these things are very exciting. Others are kind of flat (solve ASIO problem with soundcard X..).

For most of these things, there really is no room for negotiation: we need to take care of them before we can get into a whole new area, like MIDI sequencing. This has a lot to do with our philosophy, and how we see ourselves in this industry. We want to deliver quality solutions, software you will feel good with. And that just takes time.

Apart from that, I believe MIDI clips would be very cool.

Btw, I follow this forum closely and pick up many good ideas which make their way right into the to-do list. I'd like to post more often, but unfortunately, I am not only a slow thinker, but also a slow writer. However, be assured you are heared!

Sincerly,

Gerhard
ableton

[Guest]

Hi Gerhard,

One way around not changing Live as an easy to use program, yet implementing more advanced (and sometimes confusing) features to the program would be an "expert mode". This will allow users to get to the features they need, and keep them out of the way of most users. The Access Virus implements this sort of mode selection for it's users.

I work in the industry and understand the need for ease of use, but I am also an advanced user and like creative control as many other electronic musicians do.

P.S. I am also a slow writer. I feel your pain..

[harb]

sorry, didn't put a name on my post.

thanks,
shawn

[Hey Homes]

Cool man I just respect u for developing one of the coolest programs ever dont care about vst instruments if ya want them do them in cubase and export the sample and chop it and add effects to your hearts content. Again, thanks very much.

[SongCarver]

Thankyou for writing Gerhard, It is great to to hear from the writers of this great software.

I support your concern and desire for absolutely reliable software. Live is performance software, and everybody who performs needs to RELY on it.

Personally I think it would be a better option for a separate VST shell or similar application to provide VSTi instruments, to make these apps independent from each other in event of a crash or other problems.

[davemanning]

Gerhard:

Live's ease of use is its greatest strength. I keep thinking of other ways to use it in both a performance and production environment. Adding ReWire support initially was a big selling point as far as I was concerned, and if adding MIDI support makes Live a better performance tool, I say do it.

One challenge I face whenever I focus on making music is coordinating my efforts. In my mind, I want Live to act like a master sequencer - Track 1 is Reason, Track 2 is some Unity instruments, etc. I usually end up using Live just to reassemble things I've done in other programs, samples, what have you, and then recording it to disk.

Regardless, you and all the Ableton volk are doing a great job!

Dave

[FORMAT]

The main priority for most people regarding MIDI is VST instrument support isn't it. After all, these things are perfect for live playing - especially for people who can play the piano and with low latency soundcards - so they should definitely be included.

And... for today's Pentium 4 laptops, handling the data processing involved should be a breeze....

FORMAT

[Guest]

I wouldn't want to see VSTi support included. It will only sacrifice the great stability of Live. If a VST effect like OhmBoyz gives strange noizes when you mute/unmute it, I can only say I would love to see more effects from the Live crew themselves - they are much more stable with Live.

If you want to play VST instruments, you should try Bidule from Plogue, a live VSTi host being released real soon.

I'm working on two computers already for my live performances, so I wouldn't mind a third to play more instruments live.

Maybe it would be better for Live to include a VST link ? This new technology can garantuee sample accurate locking between two or more computers, thus unloading the strain on the CPU.

[FORMAT]

Well, if you do not wish to use VSTis, don't!
It's that simple.... the rest of us can use it--- if it gets implemented.


Regards
FORMAT

[Eraldo Bernocchi]

I really think Live should stay focused on the audio side. MIDI could be interesting but...
Same for VST instruments. Use them in Cubase etc etc
Ableton released such a cool piece of software ...I think they should concentrate more on CPU demand as well fxs to gain even more power.

[Guest]

nm,mn

[murcof]

I'll be getting my copy of Live pretty soon and I agree on leaving VSTi out of Live, though implementing support for midiclips is very cool!

salud!

fernando

www.murcof.com

[Patrickl]

I just saw the online demo and was sold once I seen the Wave timestrech edit or whatever it's name is.

I also agree. This gear would shoot better to the top if it main target was audio onle

[atom_b]

I think, just like Gerhard explained initially, the considerations of implementing what and when are more to be dedicated to pragmatic solutions in terms of development possibilities than to an ideology of "pure audio" (what is that anyway?).

So if anyone of us has some idea that goes beyond "implement this, implement that" (wich can be seen as already considered by the abletons -so it don't need to be mentioned every single day), we can write it down and post it.

I wasn't always convinced of Rewire as a reliably performing link between applications, but with the idea of some external Midi- or VSTi-host application slaved to Live it is starting to stir up my thoughts about performing music. I know this would be far behind real Midi-clips inside of Live, but since I, like many others, prefer ASIO while performing with Live, this would be a proper solution if you would want to play live into Live. A "simple" host like this wouldn't be in the way of audio guys and gals, and it could be treated as a seprate application wich we'd have to pay some extra money for (which would be just fair, wouldn't it?).

And then again (if ableton doesn't have the capacities for developing all at once) I see, that there could be more urgent things done to the arranger in Live, so I think, let ableton just do what you know what their first task is, and - looking at concepts like MAX/MSP - let others build this tool to rewire with Live by themselves. Or, while there are so many smart developers out there, find some amongst them to let them build it in close relation to the abletons (in the best case).

So here's my first point: Without having to give away the integrity of the Live-concept, you at ableton have a name with the developers, you could find someone to build this. I would just plain do it if I had the skills (maybe I will actually do as soon as the Win-Version of MAX/MSP is out to give me some experimental ground to learn).

I have been developing concepts for complex web-applications for years, and I have the greatest respect for the Live concept and its usability not only concerning the user interface. The abletons really do a great job! All we "implement this - implement that"-people can estimate this every day when using the "big" sequencers out here. Even using them with some smart controlling is anything else than fun and easy. Not to mention the lack of stability when you tweak them decently.

I have not managed to crash Live a single time in the last two month, while I no longer count the kill-processes I had to do with the big ones, even Samplitude, wich isn't actually a sequencer, but the best sounding DAW I know.

Wich brings me to the second, and last, point. Whatever it takes to develop the proper algorhithms: If the arranger will come up with some more skills (like advanced object/group-handling and live inputs apart from the session) it should come up with some more advanced sound and more power cencerning output levels. For these I would abandon every Midi- and VSTi-capabilities and give this to some Rewire-application apart from Live (as mentioned above).

Hope you can see my point - I prefer to work in a studio, and I need that "good" sound... and I l o v e Live.

[Gerhard]

Hi Atom, hi all,

regarding the wishes you have mentioned in your posting, the solution is on its way. As for the ReWire part, I think there is a number of attractive options from other manufacturers available now. You could run Live as a ReWire master and slave another program to it. Live will behave as usual and you get the added functionality from the slave program. The choices are:

- Reason for those who need a classical MIDI sequencer plus excellent sounding instruments, all running at very modest CPU consumption;

- Max / MSP and Reaktor give you great flexiblilty in building whatever pattern sequencers, algorithmic composers, and synthesizers you need.

All three are very fine programs.

Gerhard
ableton