Support for Polyphonic Aftertouch

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xer4111
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Re: Support for Polyphonic Aftertouch

Post by xer4111 » Sat Nov 17, 2012 10:37 am

For those raising accusations about hardware support of poly AT being thin and expensive, here's a couple of interesting points that are VERY relevant to the present circumstances (where we are TODAY with technology in this area.

iPad supports poly AT in the form of multi-gesturing and apps are being turned out all the time now that use this - probably the most high profile being Animoog, which now allows midi control output - that means that RIGHT NOW, anyone who ones an iPad 2 or better can fully implement performance of Poly AT just by spending whatever- $20.00 for Animoog.

Second,Trigger finger was already mentioned.

Third, I have just recently purchased a shiny new Macbook pro retina AND Mainstage 2 (a big $30.00 from the Apple App store). The DEMO set that loads in Mainstage features a bunch of layered patches which include very musical and playable use of poly AT for string and synth pads so that you can pull beautiful voicings up over held chords.

Mainstage rocks by the way as far as I've messed around with it - I'm mainly into using my Arturia stuff, but there are some really good patches and several gigs of sounds that come with Mainstage 2 - looks like I'll be using it extensively for my live rig.

Now, I have purchased and own a VAX 77 - one of the best hardware controllers ever made for keyboardists IMHO - I LOVE IT!!! And yes, it does cost around 3 grand - again, worth every penny. It also supports continuous pedaling, so playing Pianoteq is a joy. So yes, it is true that there are Poly AT options that are pricey. BUT for the DJs and club performers out there who are digging the versatility of iPads, poly AT IS and will remain a very desirable feature.

So whatever past considerations might have existed for NOT implementing poly AT, those are all gone now. Multi-gesture alone and the wide-spread use of tablet computers means that developers need to scope out their solutions to include these newer implementations. The world of performance AND in-studio production require support for poly AT to get the expanding benefit of these feature sets, both on pass-through of soft-synths and beyond.

Again having AT LEAST pass-through would leave me feeling like I have a solution whereby I can at least perform along with my tracks in Ableton and enjoy performing with poly AT. Maybe they could make an "insulated" poly AT pass-through plugin or something if it's too code-threatening to risk bringing the Poly AT data into the Ableton environment - that would carry a lot of weight with me.

'night all....

Rex

Angstrom
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Re: Support for Polyphonic Aftertouch

Post by Angstrom » Sat Nov 17, 2012 7:17 pm

I guess we can assume that PolyAT , and per-note automation in general, is on the cards for Live 10.
Because they have an Abeleton branded PolyAT controller for their DAW.

That makes it seem very likely eh?

dr_loop
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Re: Support for Polyphonic Aftertouch

Post by dr_loop » Sun Nov 18, 2012 12:51 pm

I guess we can assume that PolyAT , and per-note automation in general, is on the cards for Live 10.
Because they have an Abeleton branded PolyAT controller for their DAW.

That makes it seem very likely eh?
... yeah, and presumably for Push exclusively :evil:
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Angstrom
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Re: Support for Polyphonic Aftertouch

Post by Angstrom » Sun Nov 18, 2012 4:09 pm

Don't be silly.

If they implement something as extensive as per-note automation it would take a lot of work. It would be a headline feature. You think they would then lock that feature away from 90% of their user base? From their other industry partners?

Hmmm. Please run a debug on your logic functions. There is a bug.

dr_loop
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Re: Support for Polyphonic Aftertouch

Post by dr_loop » Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:44 am

... may the bug is not so much in mine, but in Abletons business-logic.

.. oh, wait .. may be not ..

.. in terms of business-logic this may make just perfect sense:

now, that Live seems to be somewhat in a *dead-end*, Abletons's Push is
its Unique Selling Proposition

They will have every reason to keep it as proprietary as possible. See the picture? Polytouch may just come in handy.
And while better not lock away 90% of their user base, it may actually be *best* to push 90% to Push

Call me paranoid or what, but maybe Ableton has just learnt its lesson ....


dr_loop
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Re: Support for Polyphonic Aftertouch

Post by dr_loop » Tue Nov 20, 2012 5:19 pm

Sig: Abort
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miekwave
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Re:

Post by miekwave » Sat Dec 01, 2012 10:01 pm

groumpf wrote:I just discovered that Live doesn't record aftertouch, also it cannot thru the message to an instrument. I though first that my VFX was malfunctionning...

It's really strange and bad.

So +1 to add this (better in 6).
+1
Check out some of my soundtracks. Also Ableton Live Performance video.

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Casual Beats
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Re: Support for Polyphonic Aftertouch

Post by Casual Beats » Fri Jul 19, 2013 1:13 am

semi-annual bump

metasymbol
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Re: Support for Polyphonic Aftertouch

Post by metasymbol » Fri Dec 13, 2013 9:40 am

An example for hardware using polyphonic aftertouch are the Roland V-Drum cymbals like cy-5. They use PA for to choke the cymbals -stop them with the hand -drummers know what I mean. I've bought the smallest Roland V-drum, the HD-3 for to practice and play more authentic grooves in my Live music. A good software sound modul for this Edrum is Ezdrummer, because it is easy to configure and also chokes are supported in the standalone software tool "Toontrack Solo" - but if I load this as plugin into Live, no chokes possible.

I realized that Ableton Live filtering the midi massage "polyphonic aftertouch". I googled around a found this thread.

I'm really pissed off that since 2007 people (customers) asking for PA support in Live, but after 6 years and Live 9.1 - this basic feature of modern controlism is not supported. Why?

+1 for the option to pass midi messages through.

EDIT: I found this with the search string "polyphonic aftertouch choke"

"Pro Tools will not record choke messages from my Roland V-Drums.
Actually the "choke" feature on the V-Drum is triggered by MIDI Polyphonic Aftertouch messages, which are turned OFF by deafult in Pro Tools.
Solution: In Pro Tools in the MIDI Input Filter, allow Pro Tools to accept Polyphonic Aftertouch messages. By default this is turned OFF (or checked)"

We need a better control for the input midi filters.
Please Ableton Devs please! Pleaaaaase!


EDIT2:

I have a very ugly workaround for to play my HD-3 EzdrumKit with chokes in Live: with the plugin version of Ploque Bidule it is possible, to make a routing with hardware midi devices - disable the midi port for the HD-3 in Live prefs,load the Ezdrummer AU in Bidule. Recording of midi drum tracks is tricky but possible. But a workflow killer!

I still can't believe that Ableton Live did not support the ability to customize the midi input filter. :cry:

EDIT3:

Even GARAGEBAND can do the polyphonic aftertouch OOTB. I mean: Garageband!!! A free music app for noobs can do the polyphonic aftertouch but not ABLETON Live? I can't believe. This can not be real.
Live Suite 9|27" i7 iMac late 2010 - 10.9.5|15" i7 MB Pro late 2011 - 10.9.5|Saffire Pro 24 + 14|APC80|A-800PRO|Push|HD-3|FCB1010|UltraNova|KeyLab25|M4U|UMI3|Graphite M8|Launchpad|Guitar Wing|BCR2000|Kontakt|GuitarRig|Reaktor|EZdrummer|Diva|Zebra2|MiniV|MidiGuitar|

ezelkow1
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Re: Support for Polyphonic Aftertouch

Post by ezelkow1 » Fri Dec 13, 2013 5:17 pm

well one obvious example of poly-AT is push itself. It supports it, if you use it in other hosts with pxt-general and that host supports poly-at you can record it. So ableton's own instrument supports something that ableton itself does not and you have to use another host to support it. I would only hope that that points to ableton supporting it in a point 9.x release, otherwise why even include it in your hardware

metasymbol
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Re: Support for Polyphonic Aftertouch

Post by metasymbol » Wed Dec 18, 2013 12:15 pm

I just had a phonecall from the Ableton AR & PR Manager Olaf Bohn about this problem and he told me something like this:

The Ableton team care about us, they are aware, that there is a problem.
The developers start to work on this item next time.
To have more flexibility for midi filter and use "polyphonic aftertouch", it need a redesign of the midi IO stack of Live, so it is very complicated and need a lot of code hacking.
This is because Live once was an audio sequencer only in the past.

A release date is not known. There are a lot of feature requests.
Stability is the first priority.
Be patient. Use Live and don't care about a missing "crash choke"


IMHO: I'm not really satisfied with this answer. This is in opposite the worst answer I expected.
Live Suite 9|27" i7 iMac late 2010 - 10.9.5|15" i7 MB Pro late 2011 - 10.9.5|Saffire Pro 24 + 14|APC80|A-800PRO|Push|HD-3|FCB1010|UltraNova|KeyLab25|M4U|UMI3|Graphite M8|Launchpad|Guitar Wing|BCR2000|Kontakt|GuitarRig|Reaktor|EZdrummer|Diva|Zebra2|MiniV|MidiGuitar|

groumpf
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Re: Support for Polyphonic Aftertouch

Post by groumpf » Fri Jan 03, 2014 3:34 pm

So here is 2014 and Live 8 (and possibly 9) doesn't support polyphonic aftertouch and it's becoming really annoying because my VFX still works and guess what : I'm still using it !
So I was testing the fabulous CS80 emulation called ME80 but with no polyphonic aftertouch and it's a shame because Live cost me about 700€ (with updates) and ignore such MIDI standard.

PLEASE add the polyphonic aftertouch and I'll update (perhaps in 2035 ?) !
-- den makes music

HamHat
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Re: Support for Polyphonic Aftertouch

Post by HamHat » Fri Jan 03, 2014 10:21 pm

Pretty ridiculous...

BML Live
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Re: Support for Polyphonic Aftertouch

Post by BML Live » Fri Jan 10, 2014 8:20 pm

Not having PA is really disappointing. I choke cymbals during Live performance all the time with Roland Drums. This is really weird. Add me to the list for passing PA through to VSTs.

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