Automation clips

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ethios4
Posts: 5377
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 6:28 am

Automation clips

Post by ethios4 » Thu Dec 27, 2007 10:06 pm

Master automation clips would be a huge help in live performance!

This would be a new type of clip - not audio or MIDI - and would be clip envelopes for every automatable parameter in Live. You could trigger an automation clip that would (for example) control a filter sweep over 16 bars, mute the kick on the last bar, trigger a reverse cymbal on the second-to-last bar, and un-mute the snare on bar 17.

This could be done now with an intricate system of dummy clips, and MIDI-Yoke'd internal routing, but that is very impractical.

It would also be a big help if the automation clip could send MIDI CC on any and all channels, and from any and all outputs. This is not a big deal for me personally, but I imagine it would be a big help to people who use external devices live.

I know this opens a whole can of worms with absolute vs. relative parameter control, and how to address mutiple automations, but it would be invaluable even in a stripped-down form. For example, automation clips could deal with absolute values in session view, whereas regular clip envelopes could be relative, as they are now. There would only be one automation clip allowable at any given time, and the automation clip would override any arrange-view automation.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE!!! This is the key to having studio-tight live performances, IMO!!!

Poster
Posts: 8804
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2005 2:21 am
Location: Amsterdam

Post by Poster » Thu Dec 27, 2007 10:47 pm

http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic. ... highlight=
Poster wrote:
breakphreak wrote:Poster: why do you think they are over? the concept of dummy clips is periodic repetative automation (just like sound clips are periodic repetative sounds 8O ).

What do you think as a better alternative for the dummy clips? An independent modulation generators? A track that can serve as a modulator for the FXs in the arrangement?

The reason I've proposed "official" dummy clips on return channels was that this feature would be relatively simple to implement (imho).
this is my idea of a official 'dummy clip' feature.. bit rough mock-up, but you get the idea..

what I want is a new Envelope Rack..
this rack would be similar to the Audio Effects Rack..
Difference is; it doesn't do anything as long as you're not triggering it.. (so initially it just bypasses audio)..

This rack would allow you to create 8 device chains..
These chains can be filled with audio effect devices..

Now, to each chain you can assign a modulator (read; envelope)
An LFO [img 1, 4], an ADSR type envelope [2] and a mini mod sequencer [3]..
The output of these 'envelope generators' can be mapped to device parameters in the chain [2],
the same way as you can Macro Map parameters to Rack Macro dials.

Next step is to trigger the envelopes..
You could map Key and MIDI to these 8 chains [1], or just trigger by mouse click..
So if you hit a Key, the envelope is triggered, and only then audio will pass through this chain,
and the devices will be modulated accordingly..

the reason I never really use dummy clips is;
- can't save them convenient enough to tracks/device chains..
- its hell to draw exotic envelopes shapes, or to even change them on the fly..
- you need an extra track and do track routing..

These new racks would allow you to;
- save envelopes within device chains..
- easy to create very exotic and complex envelopes and change them on the fly..
- no extra tracks, all contained within one track..
- trigger envelopes (un)synced to global quantization..
- add as much racks to a track as you want..
- can be placed on all tracks, including returns and master..
- save them as presets..
- use in free run mode to act as parameter modulators without the need to trigger them..

i don't think dummy clips are over because you can always use them,
i only think the next step should be something way better and more powerfull..

Image

billpayer2005
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2006 9:48 pm

Post by billpayer2005 » Thu Jan 03, 2008 1:12 am

Word.

A simple LFO / or Envelope follower plugin is standard in most software.

I cannot understand why ableton keeps adding all these redundant bells and whistles (already available as commercial and freeware VST's) yet they don't address BASIC functions which are not accessable as VST's.

I am sick of having to draw automation just to get a simple lfo.
An lfo or envelope follower would HUGELY increase the modulation possibilities within live.

I am beginning to think it is a limitation of live's code.

donato
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2005 9:24 pm

Post by donato » Thu Jan 03, 2008 9:08 pm

hi there,

in my opinion, automation clips that would be assignable to audio clips (for fades etc) are the one vital feature missing from LIVE. i work in theatre a lot, and i love using LIVE because it is so flexible and intutive... but i need automation clips!!! with regard to this, i started a topic a while ago, "timeline independent automation clips", check it out if you like. i think we are mainly requesting the same thing. i had written to the LIVE team, and they gave me the same answer they gave you (iac driver routed midi clips), but the solution remains clunky. clearly there are quite a substantial number of people requesting automation clips.

so come on guys at ableton, add this feature, and make our day!

cheers,

donato

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