when using live with large audio files in a DJ capacity sometimes you get files that drift a tiny amount that need a warp marker sticking in every 16 or 32 bars or whatever
I'm not sure but I'm guessing this is because the tracks were maybe sequenced with hardware sequencers or other programs with slightly varying tempo ideas, (i seem to remember hearing AKAI have their own way of measuring as do roland etc etc - or at least that kind of thing, not necessarily those names)
either that or they producer has written at 126.882 bpm just to be smart making it a major headache
I'm not sure how difficult something like this would be to implement, but rather than having to go through and set the warp markers each time it would be great if there was a drop down menu in the clip properties under 'orig tempo' where you could choose a tempo set (say 'akai' or 'roland' or blah blah) - either that or a button 'calculate drift' which then works it out and corrects it, I suspect the tempo set idea is probably the one though as i definitely seem to remember reading about the different formats
tempo drift correction, or tempo 'sets'
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Guest
I think this relates to another conceptual difficulty.
If you trigger a clip late, then there is no way to correct it without restarting.
If a track could have a push and pull thing, then that would be Grand.
I think music performance is about continuos correction and change...and Live has a real possiblity of that.
how can we do this guys?
-SongCarver.
If you trigger a clip late, then there is no way to correct it without restarting.
If a track could have a push and pull thing, then that would be Grand.
I think music performance is about continuos correction and change...and Live has a real possiblity of that.
how can we do this guys?
-SongCarver.
Think a workaround could be to midify the warpmarkers [ I posted a short howto last year in the tips section using Bome ] ...
http://www.mbazzy.tk -
Mbazzy's "The dysfunctional playground, a scrapbook a bout the shape of useless things" now OUT on Retinascan - http://www.retinascan.de
Mbazzy's "The dysfunctional playground, a scrapbook a bout the shape of useless things" now OUT on Retinascan - http://www.retinascan.de
even if the clips are triggered together at the start they sometimes start to drift and I am sure I've read about different companies working in dirrerent ways with tempo - different algorithms or whatever
I mean maybe it's totally impractical to do, but I guess I'm thinking in a similar way to how video has a number of frame rates like 29.97fps or 25fps etc, likewise if you could set the clip tempo according to what it was sequenced on - of course it would take some trial and error to figure it out which one it is, (unless artists put their kit list in the credits) but changing through the presets would still be easier and quicker than warping a whole track - if a whole track is unwarped you can move it in a more vinyl like way too
I cant think of any other reason why some obviously sequenced tracks (as opposed to real musicians) are spot on throughout and others drift, even if you go to decimal places - although it could be down to small fractions of bpm but that seems unlikely
I mean maybe it's totally impractical to do, but I guess I'm thinking in a similar way to how video has a number of frame rates like 29.97fps or 25fps etc, likewise if you could set the clip tempo according to what it was sequenced on - of course it would take some trial and error to figure it out which one it is, (unless artists put their kit list in the credits) but changing through the presets would still be easier and quicker than warping a whole track - if a whole track is unwarped you can move it in a more vinyl like way too
I cant think of any other reason why some obviously sequenced tracks (as opposed to real musicians) are spot on throughout and others drift, even if you go to decimal places - although it could be down to small fractions of bpm but that seems unlikely
tempo drift
some producers write small changes of tempo into the music. An increase or decrease of just 1 bpm can make a major difference in feel and give a section of a track a bit more excitement and let the track breathe more. i imagine this to be the source of "tempo drift".
Uhm...
Forge... you are correct, in fact I'd say that a lot of midi gear gets pretty close to their decimal display value, but having run some measurements of drift on midi devices... I'd say that they aren't spot on unless you lock them to some sort of midi timepiece. I've also found that live isn't exactly the best center of a midi time piece, having used some off board gear to detect the midi clock, I've found that putting it at 130, will result in offboard gear bouncing from 128.5'ish to 131.5'ish... this wasn't in a perfect situation, but you can create this kind of drift even in software...
That being said, you didn't state where you have actually picked up these tracks from... if you are recording from vinyl you may possibly be creating these fluctuations with the gear you are using, or it may be introduced in the process of actually mastering the vinyl. If you are recording as audio from a cd, believe it or not, cd drives play audio at different speeds from one another and fluctuate over time... you'd need to be 100% certain you are recording the audio as digital off of the cd to avoid this situation...
That being said, you didn't state where you have actually picked up these tracks from... if you are recording from vinyl you may possibly be creating these fluctuations with the gear you are using, or it may be introduced in the process of actually mastering the vinyl. If you are recording as audio from a cd, believe it or not, cd drives play audio at different speeds from one another and fluctuate over time... you'd need to be 100% certain you are recording the audio as digital off of the cd to avoid this situation...
Re: Uhm...
well that's the thing - they were all from an online record store - mp3s which you would guess came straight from the artist as audio and then got converted either by them or by the store.gaspode wrote: That being said, you didn't state where you have actually picked up these tracks from... if you are recording from vinyl you may possibly be creating these fluctuations with the gear you are using, or it may be introduced in the process of actually mastering the vinyl. If you are recording as audio from a cd, believe it or not, cd drives play audio at different speeds from one another and fluctuate over time... you'd need to be 100% certain you are recording the audio as digital off of the cd to avoid this situation...
Most of the tracks were spot on - all i did was adjust the first warp marker and it was spot on, but some of them just were'nt - they'd be fine for the first 16-32 bars (maybe more I'm not sure) then start to drift.
Also, my mate has a real 909 and sais he just cant slave it to live, in fact worse than that I think he said he's just using reason because ha can't get live to sync properly to it
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Guest
Perhaps the solution to drift could lie in automated warp-marker placement. Let's say you warp a track, placing one marker on measure 1, beat 1 (or whatever). The track is good for a while, and then starts to drift.
Imagine a function that moves forward some fixed amount (1 bar, 4 bars, whatever), looks for the nearest amplitude peak, and drops a warp marker there. Then it goes forward again by the same fixed amount, and repeats the process over and over for the whole track.
If this worked well, you could go down to like every 1/4 or 1/8 beat, which would work wonders with live (human-being) material, and have something really fun to play with!
Imagine a function that moves forward some fixed amount (1 bar, 4 bars, whatever), looks for the nearest amplitude peak, and drops a warp marker there. Then it goes forward again by the same fixed amount, and repeats the process over and over for the whole track.
If this worked well, you could go down to like every 1/4 or 1/8 beat, which would work wonders with live (human-being) material, and have something really fun to play with!