How do you like Live's arranger?

[Gerhard]

Hello everybody,

I would like to know your opinions on Live's arranger.

- Do you like working with it?

- Was it easy to learn using it?

- Is editing fast (when compared to other apps)?

- Do you like the navigation?

- Live's arranger is based on a selection / menu / hotkey paradigm; would you prefer tools?

- What are you missing?

Btw, in the current (June) issue of Electronic Musician, two article authors have expressed contradictory views on the arranger. That's one of the reasons I'm asking your opinions.

Your feedback is apprechiated!

Gerhard
ableton

[Deadbeat]

Hi Gerhard

I have managed to put together a good number of tracks using the Live arranger at this point, however I must confess, I do find myself jumping back to Acid on occasion to do some fast edits. I think this may be due to the fact that I 've simply used the prgram longer, and the 'tools' approach has just had more time to sink in. Perhaps it would be possible to have the best of both worlds and use both ?

Scott

[Nicholas]

Hi Gerhard,

The hot keys menu thing works quite well, but if you were to couple it with the power of a configurable tools choice.... For example;
Tool Buttons for Macs.(OS X has a config right mouse button?)
Tool Buttons or/and Tool selection mouse right button menu for Windows.(I use the mouse right button; It's works very in combination with left hand hot keys)

My other job, I'm a designer/programmer for a variety of "Industrial Automation Systems".(Was Sco/Unix, now all are Win NT). The common thread with any GUI I have delivered to a customer is that not everyone thinks the same way.
Create a multi-choice approach in the interface method and via user programmable tools, buttons, mouse right buttons, hot keys, etc.

We also have a research lab where we test modifications/enhancements to usabililty, and the most interesting result is; Once people understand the conventions to a interface, make the approach to these conventions multi-choice and each user will find the path that best suits them.

Keeping the above in mind, I also suggest 2 modes.
1. Performance. The user could strip it down to a very simple but effective (like current interface), custom GUI layout.

2. Production. The user activates production mode and all the user selected custom interface "advanced" functions become available in GUI.

Thanks for taking the time to ask the question from the users.

I hope this all makes sense....?

BTW, I have a gig tonight supporting a Japanese DJ (Ken iishi). 4000 tickets have been sold....I'll be using live most of the night.

Well done, with Live. Creating a "quiet" revolution.

Nicholas

[Nicholas]

Hi Gerhard,

The hot keys menu thing works quite well, but if you were to couple it with the power of a configurable tools choice.... For example;
Tool Buttons for Macs.(OS X has a config right mouse button?)
Tool Buttons or/and Tool selection mouse right button menu for Windows.(I use the mouse right button; It's works very in combination with left hand hot keys)

My other job, I'm a designer/programmer for a variety of "Industrial Automation Systems".(Was Sco/Unix, now all are Win NT). The common thread with any GUI I have delivered to a customer is that not everyone thinks the same way.
Create a multi-choice approach in the interface method and via user programmable tools, buttons, mouse right buttons, hot keys, etc.

We also have a research lab where we test modifications/enhancements to usabililty, and the most interesting result is; Once people understand the conventions to a interface, make the approach to these conventions multi-choice and each user will find the path that best suits them.

Keeping the above in mind, I also suggest 2 modes.
1. Performance. The user could strip it down to a very simple but effective (like current interface), custom GUI layout.

2. Production. The user activates production mode and all the user selected custom interface "advanced" functions become available in GUI.

Thanks for taking the time to ask the question from the users.

I hope this all makes sense....?

BTW, I have a gig tonight supporting a Japanese DJ (Ken iishi). 4000 tickets have been sold....I'll be using live most of the night.

Well done, with Live. Creating a "quiet" revolution.

Nicholas

[Guest]

heye gerhard,

i'm using live since november and i don't really know how to express my love for this program. i played around 15 gigs with it so far, it never crashed. i came from cubase (only MIDI), hoping that this would be the tool for me to finally go audio, and it was the absolute right choice.

i think the arranger is perfect for programmin' tracks. i never used acid, so i can't compare to that, but i can't think of a better, more intuitive audio-app at this time.

being a "hotkey-fan", i don't miss tool-windows at all. i can work with Live's arranger very fast, editing waveforms via CoolEditPro is the only thing interrupting my "jammin' process" in Live.

the only thing i might add is a GLUE-function, to, yeah right, glue edited parts together (for better overview).

can't think of anything else at the moment, but i guess there will be more posts to this thread.

keep up the excellent work
cheers
ischo-->hightide

[Guest]

oh right, automation for sample-start-points and
that "play sample 3 bars long, then loop the 4th bar" thing.



btw, howcome i'm always anonymous, even if i've logged in?
always

[MIDI terrorist1]

I like the arranger very much,very relexed work!!!It is perfekt!!!
But I miss MIDI!!!

[fuzesupernova]

Hello everybody,

I would like to know your opinions on Live's arranger.

- Do you like working with it?
yes verymuch....most time i use arranger with Logic audio 5
- Was it easy to learn using it?
very easy
- Is editing fast (when compared to other apps)?
yes very
- Do you like the navigation?
hell yeah...thaz da bestpart
- Live's arranger is based on a selection / menu / hotkey paradigm; would you prefer tools?
i want to have dubble click start position.
- What are you missing?
want have some MIDI,can't use original tempo,no automaiton on clip edit,sometimes itz hard to change loop positon. and no preview option on replace mode.
Btw, in the current (June) issue of Electronic Musician, two article authors have expressed contradictory views on the arranger. That's one of the reasons I'm asking your opinions.

Your feedback is apprechiated!

Gerhard
ableton

[atom_b]

I also suggest 2 modes.
1. Performance. The user could strip it down to a very simple but effective (like current interface), custom GUI layout.

2. Production. The user activates production mode and all the user selected custom interface "advanced" functions become available in GUI.

I can only second that! To have sort of Production- or Expert-mode this way would be just fine.

I didn't work all that much with the arranger-mode, but IMO while to have some MIDI and/or VSTi-capability in the Session-mode would be redundant, in Arranger-mode it would make LIVE a superbe Studio-tool.

I guess you already know the above said, and certainly it would be a hard task to implement this. But since if residing in the Arranger it would not affect the Session-use of Live but would greatly enhance the Studio-use of it.

BTW: I'am exclusivly using LIVE in the Studio, an there's two things that force me to switch: One is the lack of VSTi and MIDI, as said, the other is sound quality. If I tell you that I'm working with Samplitude when it comes to having the best sound quality possible maybe you know the difference too.

Again: All above said doesn't affect the revolutionary simplicity the Session-part of Live represents (and one can't underestimate the importance of this fact).
But the Arranger could definitly benefit a lot from the enhancment of sound quality and the introduction of VSTi and a MIDI engine, as well as a DirectX-interface (or some shell to use DX-effects, not instruments!). Believe you me, I really dream of a tool like this!

If ableton would be able to implement these accompanied by some enhanced audio-engine into 2.0, well, I would even go out and buy a second licence;-)

Regards

Atom

[neuronaut]

I've been using Flash every day for years now. It has this wonderful imbed an object in another object thing going on. [Consider this idea in live:] You can have layers, like the arranger does now, but that whole set of layers is considered an object.

Each object behaves a certain way (or better yet can be programmed to behave e.g. loop, play once, play back and forth, play random, etc.).

The objects are then dragable to either the main timeline OR THE PERFORMANCE MATRIX!!! Oh my! Basically an object (or an arrangement) can be treated JUST LIKE AN AUDIO CLIP. Drag it from the file manager, click on it in performance mode, stretch it out in the arranger and double click on it to explore, save multiple copies and imbed those in another arranger object, go fickin crazy with the endless options!

The reason I bring this up now is because it seems like a fundamental concept to the whole thing...

I think this could open up music for us all, allowing complex arrangements of loops, controlled by a master timeline. (chord changes, tempo changes, etc. all in the master timeline....)

Objects could choose to behave like the parent, child?!! or self!!!!.

Am I crazy or is THIS THE NEXT GENERATION OF MUSIC? If nothing else, version 2 should go object oriented! Everything else can be added on top...

Respect and thanks again Ableton!

[atom_b]

no, you're not crazy. that's what should and will be going on - but time, time passes slowly...

[neuronaut]

no, you're not crazy. that's what should and will be going on - but time, time passes slowly...

For me, time has a relative feel. especially as a musician, I am obsessed with the observation of time passing... to me time is speeding up!... minutes into seconds, days just whip by, a week can pass before I notice... relatively speaking, version 2 can't be that far off...

[Stiffy]

...But time always is a relative thing in San Francisco, Grig

Anyhow, Gerhard, I enjoy working with the arranger view precisely because of it's Selection/Menu/Hot Key functionality. I learned how to use it on the fly, before I even opened the manual. Basic editing is simple. Everything about this program is marvelously simple which is why it works.
I would hate to see Live bogged down with too many advanced tools. If there is too much to think about then spontaneity is lost and that is the whole point of Live, isn't it? Going with the assumption that Live is actually an instrument, loading it up with too many tools would be like adding extra valves to a trumpet: though they might be useful in some ways, it is highly probable that it would also make it harder to play...

[SongCarver]

Stiffy, I like your trumpet valves idea.

A trumpet is great because if you hold down the valve you get what you expect. However, for some advanced techniques you need to press the valve half-way down.

Contextual menues work that way in mac os (windows maybe?)

If you click, you get a click.

If you hold and move,, you drag.

But if you hold, and keep holding, then a menue pops up.

Getting more out of the interface is the key I believe.


I would love an interface that, say knows if i am draging an opject in circles, and would set that clip to 'loop' the number of times i circled.

I know you could just pull the end othe clip out, but you get what i mean. Get more out of the info that we are getting from the interface.

Let me drag and 'throw' the fx off screen to delete them. LEt me 'scrub' the parameters off a track by rubbing or shaking the track!!

There is a wealth of information that the user inuitively understands from the real world. Look at apples 'red means stop, green means go' close and maximise window buttons. Anybody can work that out.

As power users, go see or rent 'monority report'

See how the main characher easily deals with random access ideas with movement, not key combos.

Definantly the way to go.

[Guest]

just like in opera