change Rack Preset

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Angstrom
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change Rack Preset

Post by Angstrom » Wed Jun 11, 2008 5:38 pm

Unfortunately there is no good system to "change rack programs" or "change rack presets" . So, I can't switch from one main rack to another. I could use chains - but this does not de-activate the un-needed racks it just routes midi away from them.

This means that in my current live set, where I have 8 main racks, each with many sub racks, I am currently stuck with CPU drain for all 8 racks at once, even though I only play one of them at a time.

With a true 'program change' the Rack would be un-loaded when I was finished with it, as it is I have to map the on/off buttons of the racks to a certain range and make an external application which manages incrementing of a midi variable.
it's clumsy and un-lovely, also I can't see what the hell I am doing.
I need a big screen that says "PROGRAM 2 - PIANOID" really large, not a little macro that says "33%" and I must mentally equate that to the correct preset.

scyhte
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Post by scyhte » Wed Jun 11, 2008 11:48 pm

100% with you.
racks would make much more sense if they could be used this way.
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Amaury
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Re: change Rack Preset

Post by Amaury » Thu Jun 12, 2008 8:30 am

Angstrom wrote:Unfortunately there is no good system to "change rack programs" or "change rack presets" . So, I can't switch from one main rack to another. I could use chains - but this does not de-activate the un-needed racks it just routes midi away from them.

This means that in my current live set, where I have 8 main racks, each with many sub racks, I am currently stuck with CPU drain for all 8 racks at once, even though I only play one of them at a time.

With a true 'program change' the Rack would be un-loaded when I was finished with it, as it is I have to map the on/off buttons of the racks to a certain range and make an external application which manages incrementing of a midi variable.
it's clumsy and un-lovely, also I can't see what the hell I am doing.
I need a big screen that says "PROGRAM 2 - PIANOID" really large, not a little macro that says "33%" and I must mentally equate that to the correct preset.
Hi,

I'm not sure I understand what you're asking for, even though I sense I know what it is.. But to be clear:

- You have a Rack, with many Racks inside. Is that this situation, you want to avoid?

A problem with Rack "programs", or "preset" change, is obviously loading times, if you're using samples inside. So, I'm not sure that what you want is a way to load unload presets, is it? Isn't it that you'd like a better way/display for selecting which sub-rack is "active?

Also, as it is, devices that don't do anything don't consume CPU, or not much.

Let me know what I've missed.

Regards,
Amaury
Ableton Product Team

Angstrom
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Post by Angstrom » Thu Jun 12, 2008 1:16 pm

Hi Amo,
here is the current situation :

I have a Live set, where I play 'keyboards' over the top.
For each song in the set I have a 'preset', each preset is a multi-chain.

here is one of my "presets"
Image

there are about 7 more of those, similar but different. One for each 'song' I play. This is the current situation and I currently attempt to 'change presets' like this:

Image

the on/off' of each 'preset' (sub-rack) is currently mapped to a macro, the macro will de-activate each 'preset' in sequence. This is my method of turning off racks that I don't currently need.

I can;t use chain-select on the main rack, because each of the sub-racks (the presets) will remain actively consuming CPU. This is why I map the on/off switches to de-activate the dis-used presets.

----

the problem
using a macro as a preset select is a lot less useful than the traditional preset selection method for synths. The traditional method can incrementing through a sequence of presets. In a live setting it is good if the presets mirror the set list, the performer usually moves to the next song 'preset' by pressing "up" or may have the preset change pre-programmed into the sequence by using midi program change messages.

A second benefit of the traditional preset system is the ability to see the name of the preset - ("tiny bells" or "Hideous Mighty Klang!" ) to help the performer avoid making the wrong noise.

Currently we can't increment through a set of 'presets' without weird hackery, and without any visual feedback we can;t really see what we have selected.

--------

The Suggestion

The requirements are -
  • to select one preset from a small bunch
  • seeing the name of the selected preset
  • having a small memory and CPU overhead

I suggest that a rack of sub-rack 'presets' needs a dedicated facility to select and de-activate presets.

I propose that the user has a rack of specific presets, looking very like the one in my image , but that the rack is optimised for live use. There needs to be a facility to step through the racks easily, via midi and midi-program change, there needs to be good visibility.

here is a rough idea. And this is the size I would prefer it too!

Image

in this image - the orange chain is selected and active, the others are de-selected and inactive and consuming no CPU.

right, I better get back to work now!

Angstrom
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Post by Angstrom » Thu Jun 12, 2008 1:24 pm

I think I may be describing this
Image

R.J.Dubya
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Post by R.J.Dubya » Thu Jun 12, 2008 3:40 pm

Excellent description of a much needed feature Angstrom! Sign me up! :D
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forge
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Post by forge » Sat Jun 14, 2008 8:53 am

+1

I just came to the wishlist forum to either search for or start another "proper program changes" type thread - in relation to this thread:

http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic. ... highlight=

Since I upgradeed Reaktor I've been painfully reminded just how desperately lacking this is - hotswapping is not convenient at all really - I want to use my Program up/down or number buttons on my MIDI keyboard

Angstrom
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Post by Angstrom » Sat Jun 14, 2008 1:48 pm

yes, there are some weird workarounds but all have serious drawbacks.
I was working with the on/off method for a while but was getting clicks when the signal path is re-calculated.
I'm currently going for a chain-select solution, with greatly slimmed down racks to try and get under the CPU ceiling.

I am selecting the active chainby a Clip with macro automation on the relevant track. The problem is that I can't use 'arm' anymore to select tracks - because I will record into the clip with the macro automation in it and it comes back around at me. Not what I want. I need 'arm' because it is visible on my hardware controller as a nice red LED "you are about to play this", without arm I am literally in the dark.

So I'm looking at ditching that method now too, I'm running out of ideas.

Soupsounds
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Using racks as presets

Post by Soupsounds » Wed Nov 05, 2008 1:59 pm

i would like to add my support for ehansed Midi control of racks.

1. If one chain (or embeded rack) in a rack is selected all the other ones in the rack should be disabled to avoid CPU overload. This should be indicated by a greying out of the chain.

2. If any Chain / Rack is disabled any midi control data sent to it should not change the parameters. This is because you may have many racks with similar effects and 1 midi controller - Within a live set you don't want want to alter another deactivated preset while you are using another.

3. When you Chance the chain number in a Rack the Chain with all its plugins should be shown - whatever the configuration of the Rack display - At present this only happens when you have all the Macro parameters on display.

4. All Midi assignments should be saved with the Rack data.

If these four things were to happen the Racks would provide an excellent way of dealing with presets for live preformance.

I have used a complex working around for the muting chains / cpu issue with Bome Translator - But that has its limitations

All the best

Richard

Angstrom
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Post by Angstrom » Tue Feb 17, 2009 4:09 pm

OK,
I may as well bump this in time for the Live 9 spec meeting.

Jekblad
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Post by Jekblad » Tue Feb 17, 2009 9:51 pm

yes, please find an awesome way to let us change presets on the fly. love you bye!
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Post by lunabass » Wed Feb 18, 2009 12:30 am

angstroms solution is an excellent idea.

to simply place rack presets into a folder for a performance and be able to select or switch presets easily would be fantastic. i've had to incorporate reasons combinator into live sets because it allows me to do just that. it'd be great to have this option in live
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friend_kami
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Post by friend_kami » Wed Feb 18, 2009 10:46 pm

well yeah. count me in.

or.. let me rephrase that: +1

Mogazi!
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Re: change Rack Preset

Post by Mogazi! » Fri Feb 04, 2011 10:13 pm

+1 (in fact +3 as my bandmembers would very much appreciate this feature too!)
CPU usage is a real issue especially if you're trying to use Live "live"!

lotrian
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Re: change Rack Preset

Post by lotrian » Mon Feb 07, 2011 6:34 am

+1 Use programe change in ableton rack could be realy interesting for Live situation ... and for CPU used.

8)

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