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 Post subject: multi channel
PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:04 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 3:13 pm
Posts: 7
is there a way to output to several (physical) channels from from one track?
i'd like to spatialize sounds from inside a maxdevice.


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 Post subject: Re: multi channel
PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 6:16 pm 

Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 6:40 pm
Posts: 14486
Location: Belgium
robinmeier wrote:
is there a way to output to several (physical) channels from from one track?
i'd like to spatialize sounds from inside a maxdevice.


No. Only Stereo works for individual tracks.

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 Post subject: Re: multi channel
PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 7:24 pm 

Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2006 6:46 pm
Posts: 130
robinmeier wrote:
is there a way to output to several (physical) channels from from one track?
i'd like to spatialize sounds from inside a maxdevice.


I'm hoping that multiple outputs will be enabled in a version somewhat soon. But we have heard that multiple output will not be available in M4L devices in version 1.0

For right now - it looks like the only way* to spatialize would be to control Live's Sends...but that's pretty awkward.

*(well, there is NEVER just one way)

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 Post subject: Re: multi channel
PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 12:26 pm 

Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 8:08 pm
Posts: 101
Location: Quebec, Canada
Yeah, I find that disappointing as well. I really hoped I could be able to create a spatialization plugin within m4l so I can work in surround for live performances. Guess they can't do everything at once and hope we'll see that in v2

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 Post subject: Re: multi channel
PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 3:24 pm 

Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2005 5:59 pm
Posts: 100
I'm working on a solution that I hope will allow spatialization across 8 speakers. It is more primative than I'd like, but I guess workarounds are all that we get for now.

I'll post my approach once I've made some progress on it. I'm currently finishing off another device.


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 Post subject: Re: multi channel
PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 3:52 pm 

Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 8:08 pm
Posts: 101
Location: Quebec, Canada
Great!

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 Post subject: Re: multi channel
PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 5:05 pm 

Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 4:11 pm
Posts: 44
Here's my 4-channel solution, using sends:
http://www.mikezed.com/4-channels.zip

Put it on a track with 4 sends. Windows vbap object is here:
http://www.acoustics.hut.fi/software/vb ... s_windows/

Double-click on the speaker placement sub-patcher to adjust your speaker locations. You could also change the number of speakers, although the rest of the code isn't there yet.

I don't know what the power curves on the sends are, so this isn't scientifically accurate.

mz


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 Post subject: Re: multi channel
PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 3:07 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 3:50 pm
Posts: 220
Location: Berlin
I finally got my spatializer running as well. The send solution is overkill, as I need at least 8 outs. I had up to 12 Speakers which is very nice, but just imagining a track with 12 sends which are even not really used as sends... (and you probably want real sends as well...)
As I did it in max with simply controlling a matrix~ I just send the matrix~ information over a send object to 4 tracks which only output the sound for one pair of speakers. It works fine, but even with grouping tracks its creating more ghost tracks than one would want (they exist only for the distribution and have no other use. Seems a waist of resources...)
Its at the moment not more than a proof of concept, I'll post a finished result soon...

Stefan

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 Post subject: Re: multi channel
PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 3:12 pm 

Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 6:40 pm
Posts: 14486
Location: Belgium
Have you considered using the External Audio Effect? Depending on how your patch works, you could keep it all in one track.
The External Audio Effect allows you to specify speakers and you can use any number of these.

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 Post subject: Re: multi channel
PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 3:32 pm 

Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2005 5:59 pm
Posts: 100
That is precisely what I've done. Works well, especially when racked up into eights.


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 Post subject: Re: multi channel
PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 3:14 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 3:50 pm
Posts: 220
Location: Berlin
hoffman2k wrote:
The External Audio Effect allows you to specify speakers and you can use any number of these.

How would you do that? As far as I see, I can only create a row of effects, with the returns going back into the same track after the External Effect device. This could work for live input (be choosing the original input as return), but would not work for synthesized sounds or tracks, unless I patch a hardware cable to reroute my sounds...

Stefan

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 Post subject: Re: multi channel
PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 3:30 pm 

Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 6:40 pm
Posts: 14486
Location: Belgium
stefan-tiedje wrote:
hoffman2k wrote:
The External Audio Effect allows you to specify speakers and you can use any number of these.

How would you do that? As far as I see, I can only create a row of effects, with the returns going back into the same track after the External Effect device. This could work for live input (be choosing the original input as return), but would not work for synthesized sounds or tracks, unless I patch a hardware cable to reroute my sounds...

Stefan


You could have parallel Chains in an Audio Effect Rack. 8 "Layers" each with an external audio effect sending to an individual speaker.
Depending on your solution you either need 8 custom devices on each Chain or one device automating the chain volumes.

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 Post subject: Re: multi channel
PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 9:24 pm 

Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2005 5:59 pm
Posts: 100
stefan-tiedje wrote:
hoffman2k wrote:
The External Audio Effect allows you to specify speakers and you can use any number of these.

How would you do that? As far as I see, I can only create a row of effects, with the returns going back into the same track after the External Effect device. This could work for live input (be choosing the original input as return), but would not work for synthesized sounds or tracks, unless I patch a hardware cable to reroute my sounds...

Stefan


I put eight parallel externals into a rack, and map the gain to the eight macro knobs, automating these from my panning device. I then place one instance of this rack into each track that will go to the speakers. You are correct, the signal chain stops with these devices - they are the last device in each track's chain.

Not perfect, but better than a poke in the eye. You can accomplish a variety of routing solutions, and you can also write reasonable spatialization code.


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 Post subject: Re: multi channel
PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 3:20 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 3:50 pm
Posts: 220
Location: Berlin
Thanks for the tip, I'll find out how exactly to do that. Still learning Live - my last intense sequencer experience was Studio-Vision and an old Logic 3.0. After that mainly ProTools. Live is a very different beast and I like it...

How do you Live experts do 5.1 mixes? Also with racks of parallel devices? - just curios...

Stefan

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 Post subject: Re: multi channel
PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 5:54 pm 

Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2005 5:59 pm
Posts: 100
Lack of 5.1 is just one of the myriad long-awaited features for Live.

Live is an awesome and fun-to-use tool for live performance and sketching of compositional ideas, as long as they are in stereo... Like you, I prefer to think of it as a *sequencer* that combines audio and midi tracks. (But this shows that I am oldskool, I'm afraid.)

If I am doing a complex 5.1 or other multichannel *mix*, I use other software and wait patiently for the feature.


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