Looking for definitive word on correct manners for MIDI thro

[hoffman2k]

I'm paraphrasing the "definitive word" here. But this is what I gathered so far:

Apart from the actual M4L and API implementations, no actual features have been added or changed in Live.
No limitations have been removed either. But both Ableton and Cycling are aware of this.
Their official stance is to get M4L and Live as stable as possible and obviously they have a deadline.
To remove limitations in Live, you have to consider why they are there in the first place. They're there for a reason. I can't tell you why because I've been asking for years. I can tell you that you aren't getting answer from them on this question.

Ableton has to be sure that removing the limitation doesn't break any Live sets made in the past 10 years.
Most likely we'll just see another option in the MIDI Track. Because if "All Tracks" would suddenly block no signals anymore. A lot off people will have to troubleshoot their setup that always worked before. Some VST's do respond to CC's, Sysex, Program changes, etc..

Basically. M4L 1.0 is MAX 5 slapped onto Live. M4L 1.5 is whatever you can convince Ableton and Cycling to do. Audio tracks with unlimited (or at least 8) outputs? Unfiltered MIDI? Virtual MIDI Ports? I mean, there's not much left to wish for. They literally gave (in my case) the power to grant your own wishes.

Ehm.. I'm sure the original statement was way shorter. Lets just say I paraphrased every reply I got since Live 3 up till today.

Here's Robert Henke explaining it more elegantly: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmLvjRmulAM

[cassiel.com]

No complaints with what you're saying here. My sporadic carping in this thread is that the documentation appears to go to great pains to explain a technique which doesn't appear to work in a manner which doesn't quite make sense.

If the verdict is that the entire Max for Live world works in stereo-only, MIDI channel 1-only, then I have enough workrounds that it isn't really an issue (I already have a scheme for doing multi-MIDI-channel step sequencing from a single Max Device, for instance). But I would like the documentation to be accurate.

[pukunui]

Put a max MIDI effect on a MIDI track.

Put a Max *Instrument* on another track - anything with midiin and midiparse.

Observe that on the source track in the Live channel you have a pull down menu which lets you specify the target channel - "MIDI to"

Now look at the output from the midiparse object in your target instrument.

Any good?

-A

[julienb]

sure it works, fine
it is a part of the workaround we did with ralf

[cassiel.com]

Put a Max *Instrument* on another track - anything with midiin and midiparse.

Right - got it. Yes, that works, thanks.

However, the documentation talks about MIDI Effects - where this multichannel mechanism doesn't work. It also has unrelated diagrams (showing MIDI filtering at external sources), and suggests - even though the diagram is unrelated - that one sets up the MIDI filtering at the track inputs, when it's actually done as an output routing to instruments on other tracks.

In other words, the documentation appears to be a bit hat-stand.

I would still have to solve the problem of getting MIDI routed out of an instrument, in order to get into my comfort zone of true multichannel MIDI routing. Hmm. I could encode the MIDI as PWM and transfer it as audio. How smelly is that?

[stefan-tiedje]

I can't on mine. I can send a MIDI track's output to another track, in which case I can select where to insert it (Track In, or into instruments, for example) but I can't channelise it.

As soon I choose a Midi output (not one of the tracks (That wouldn't make sense as the recorded Midi information does not contain channel information), but for example an external Midi or IAC bus) I get an additional menu to select the channel in the track. I can't imagine that you don't get this. You have to activate the ports in the preferences of course...

I guess the limitation is really how Midi is recorded. It is not the raw Midi stream, it is the Midi information without the channels. The input of a track will strip the channels, at the output you can add them again...

(How do I paste a picture into a post?...)



Stefan

[julienb]

I can't on mine. I can send a MIDI track's output to another track, in which case I can select where to insert it (Track In, or into instruments, for example) but I can't channelise it.

As soon I choose a Midi output (not one of the tracks (That wouldn't make sense as the recorded Midi information does not contain channel information), but for example an external Midi or IAC bus) I get an additional menu to select the channel in the track. I can't imagine that you don't get this. You have to activate the ports in the preferences of course...

I guess the limitation is really how Midi is recorded. It is not the raw Midi stream, it is the Midi information without the channels. The input of a track will strip the channels, at the output you can add them again...

(How do I paste a picture into a post?...)




Stefan

you have to put the picture on a webserver and to link it in your post...
it sucks. Ableton should replace the forum by another one.

[amounra93]

Its smelly, but its possible. I have to chime in on the push for proper docs, though. I would like to know what this whole "everything that's not processed should be forwarded to the output" thing is all about.

Anyway, I've been using send/receive to deal with multichannel midi for a week. No problem. Er....its messy as all hell. But whatever, it works, and its not as messy if you fold it inside a group and never look at it.

[julienb]

they should extend this feature... really.
there are many workaround, but it sucks a bit...

[sgreene]

I have a max patch that is essential a keyboard splitter and am trying to send it to a multichannel AU on the same track. It seems that everything is being converted to channel 1 after exiting max and entering the plugin! Is this the expected behavior? It seems I am thwarted at every step...

[julienb]

you can use this workaround: http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=128795