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possible to add additional "extra" slots on the live.step?

Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 5:49 am
by kcinsu
I'm relatively new to Max, so I don't know if this is a silly question...

... but can you edit objects? Specifically, it would be nice if the live.step object allowed for more than just 2 "extra" user definable layers. Is this possible to add, or would Max have to make a new, more in depth object that allowed for more?

Re: possible to add additional "extra" slots on the live.step?

Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 6:19 am
by steff3
Well, I did not really look into it, but I guess (and hope you can feed the step with lists - so if you do not use the step as holder of the info but only as GUI element, you can might be able to use lists and according to what you select just feed it with another list to visualise it ...

At least this is how I would try to approach it ...

sorry, not really an informed advice, maybe it helps anyways ...

best

Re: possible to add additional "extra" slots on the live.step?

Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 9:35 am
by jon_moore
The live.step sequencer object has only 2 extra slots, but it would appear that you can utilise multiple live.step objects within your patch to deliver greater modulation features. You can build your own interface elements to drive those extra modulation features.

I do agree though that 2 extra slots on the standard live.step object is a tad tight! I would personally like to see a minimum of 4.

Check out the floating sequencer patch I made which demonstrates some simple customisations that can be added to a single live.step object (in the case I've made the number of steps per sequence customisable, added a select CC for the 'Extra 2' slot and provided copy & paste functionality between each of the 4 sequence slots - http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=129361 -).

Hope this helps.

Re: possible to add additional "extra" slots on the live.step?

Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 10:34 am
by emmanuel_2
jon_moore wrote:The live.step sequencer object has only 2 extra slots, but it would appear that you can utilise multiple live.step objects within your patch to deliver greater modulation features. You can build your own interface elements to drive those extra modulation features.

I do agree though that 2 extra slots on the standard live.step object is a tad tight! I would personally like to see a minimum of 4.

Check out the floating sequencer patch I made which demonstrates some simple customisations that can be added to a single live.step object (in the case I've made the number of steps per sequence customisable, added a select CC for the 'Extra 2' slot and provided copy & paste functionality between each of the 4 sequence slots - http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=129361 -).
It's a design choice. 2 seemed enough extra information for a step. It'll be too much for some people, not enough for others... While this is not going to change anytime soon, you might be able to take advantage of the number of sequences (up to 16).

Re: possible to add additional "extra" slots on the live.step?

Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 12:11 pm
by jon_moore
emmanuel_2 wrote:
It's a design choice. 2 seemed enough extra information for a step. It'll be too much for some people, not enough for others... While this is not going to change anytime soon, you might be able to take advantage of the number of sequences (up to 16).
I do understand that it was a 'design choice' and I have already worked out other methods for creating extra modulation possibilities. I currently use Numerology and Thesys as my main step sequencers (both of which enable you to modulate multiple synth parameters as long as they're accessible via midi CC messages). For me, the great thing with using multiple step sequencing environments is that they each inspire you in different ways so you end up creating unique sequences in each environment (after all my main interest is making music not devices!). My favourite step sequencing environment is included in the XILS 3 synth (modelled on the EMS VCS3) - http://www.xils-lab.com/ - It's the deep modulation capabilities within this beast that give its sequences their unique flavour. If I'm only interested in sequencing note, velocity and duration information I may as well uses a standard sequencing environment.

My comments were not intended as criticisms of the live.step object per se (there are many things about it that I like very much) but now you've got me on the subject, the reality is that it lacks some essential features 'out of the box' and overall has some unusual 'design choices'. I have three main irks with the current implementation 1.) even though it appears like the native Live midi grid, the way you enter data uses a different paradigm (non intuitive user experience) and 2.) the duration parameter only allows you create durations in multiples of 2 so you can't create a note 3 steps in length and 3.) the limited modulation capabilities as already discussed. Maybe my expectations for the live.step object are misguided but I had expected to see the same modulation capabilities offered by Live Clips as standard within this particular object (they are after all related to each other conceptually).

Still, I'm loving the M4L product overall (even if I am trepidatious about it's seemingly limitless possibilities!) and will be first in the queue to purchase when it goes on sale next week. I only hope that in the coming months some of the feedback the development team have received through the beta programme is taken on board.

Re: possible to add additional "extra" slots on the live.step?

Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 7:58 pm
by DarwinGrosse
jon_moore wrote: Still, I'm loving the M4L product overall (even if I am trepidatious about it's seemingly limitless possibilities!) and will be first in the queue to purchase when it goes on sale next week. I only hope that in the coming months some of the feedback the development team have received through the beta programme is taken on board.
Please believe me when I say that all of this will be culled, collated and reviewed for future work. There are no promises, but we take these suggestions very seriously.

[ddg]

Re: possible to add additional "extra" slots on the live.step?

Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 9:05 pm
by jon_moore
DarwinGrosse wrote:
jon_moore wrote: Still, I'm loving the M4L product overall (even if I am trepidatious about it's seemingly limitless possibilities!) and will be first in the queue to purchase when it goes on sale next week. I only hope that in the coming months some of the feedback the development team have received through the beta programme is taken on board.
Please believe me when I say that all of this will be culled, collated and reviewed for future work. There are no promises, but we take these suggestions very seriously.

[ddg]

Really appreciate your response on this. My limited experience of the C74 team has been fantastic so far and this bodes well for a product in it's infancy (M4L that is not Max!). The fact that one of the lead engineers on the product can find the time to respond to my comments a few days before launch is heartening.