Monomodular Thread (b994: Max6 Compatibility)

Questions and discussion about building and using Max for Live devices
amounra93
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Re: Monomod & its Children (b92)

Post by amounra93 » Thu Jun 24, 2010 5:48 pm

@ ystek:

You should try Monomod simple. Its less crash prone, since it doesn't have all the Live API calls included that are used in conjunction with the TouchOSC template I use. It supports Launchpad only.

I've had crashes when deleting the Monomod instance before, but usually only when in edit mode. Try turning off the plugin before deleting.

As far as LED's not working anymore, I have a few questions:

Were the lights on the GUI of the plugin still working? Was the Launchpad still responding to keypresses?

If the answer to the first question was no, then M4L must've broken the internal send. Nothing I can do about it...problem with M4L and interpatch communication. However, I haven't had that happen in a long time in my own sets. If the answer to the second question was no, then you just need to delete the Launchpad from the control surfaces menu in Live prefs and reinstantiate it, then hit the reset button on the Monomod plugin. I'm currently looking into this.

The buttons on the far right (presumably this is what you are refering too): top four are velocity assignments for the steps, Low to High. If you select Low, then whatever step you create will be at the Low setting of the velocity range, if you select High then it will be at the High velocity range. The bottom right four buttons control the speed of the plugin, from top to bottom they are 1X, 2X, 3X, and triplet.

Thanks for the feedback, please let me know a little bit more about your experience.

@ #1thelark: no, unfortunately the plugins cannot be modular outside of M4L, unless you own a full copy of MaxMSP. I ported them from that environment. If I get enough requests, I may make a standalone version of Plinko at some point that would work outside of M4L, but I don't have any plans for that presently. I would have to completely redesign the Launchpad interface, since it utilizes the API within Live.

Thanks :)
http://www.aumhaa.com for Monomod and other m4l goodies.

#1thelark
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Re: Monomod & its Children (b92)

Post by #1thelark » Thu Jun 24, 2010 6:46 pm

amounra93 wrote: @ #1thelark: no, unfortunately the plugins cannot be modular outside of M4L, unless you own a full copy of MaxMSP. I ported them from that environment. If I get enough requests, I may make a standalone version of Plinko at some point that would work outside of M4L, but I don't have any plans for that presently. I would have to completely redesign the Launchpad interface, since it utilizes the API within Live.

Thanks :)
m4l in demomode or MaxMSP-runtime are not possible to test this? Too bad. Multiple Launchpads are those possible?

cheers

amounra93
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Re: Monomod & its Children (b92)

Post by amounra93 » Thu Jun 24, 2010 7:00 pm

Demo mode will work for you, sure :) Not Max-runtime; again, the patch requires the API stuff, which is only possible with M4L.

I haven't implemented support for multiple Launchpads yet, as I only have one to test with. If I get a few more requests I'll try to implement it....it wouldn't take very much to change the patch, I think.
http://www.aumhaa.com for Monomod and other m4l goodies.

ytsek
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Re: Monomod & its Children (b92)

Post by ytsek » Fri Jun 25, 2010 8:56 am

amounra93 wrote: Were the lights on the GUI of the plugin still working?
Not sure. I think they were.
amounra93 wrote: Were the lights on the GUI of the plugin still working? Was the Launchpad still responding to keypresses?
Device was responding to keypresses on the Launchpad.

Will have another look this weekend. And I'll try Monomod simple.

Rhythmbox
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Re: Monomod & its Children (b92)

Post by Rhythmbox » Thu Jul 01, 2010 3:55 pm

Firstly, many thanks for taking the time to share your hard work.

Am very excited by the TR256 since a 'useable' rhythm step sequencer for Live and Launchpad seems hard to find... Initial results are very pleasing once I understood the button layout!

Trouble is, the swing is going haywire for me :evil:
With just the TR256 loaded into monomod simple I press the third clock button to get sixteenth steps and start putting notes in. Trouble is, it sounds as if there's permanent swing. Changing swing from 1.00 to 1.01 makes it sound 'nearly' okay but timing is baggy. Setting swing back to 1.00 often (but not always) sends it into a heavy CR78 style bosonova mode!? Very strange.

Maybe I'm missing something or maybe it's some other issue on our work Mac. Will try on my home machine as soon as I get chance and can borrow the launchpad I'm testing with :wink:

P.S I just read your note about needing to fix the swing timing engine - do you have any work around to let me disable swing completely? I thought a value of 1.00 would be swing free, but doesn't seem to be for me...

amounra93
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Re: Monomod & its Children (b92)

Post by amounra93 » Thu Jul 01, 2010 9:51 pm

Glad your digging it. The fix I mentioned for the swing engine is for values just BELOW 1.0. It should be working fine (it works on all my machines). I'm guessing it may be a slower machine, or PPC? I haven't tested this stuff on PPC yet.

I will add a button to bypass the swing engine ASAP. The process I use is pretty CPU hungry, as it has to calculate on every tick change. If you are on a slower processor, this would cause the swingyness at 0 swing values (which is really just process lag, and not swing). I'm trying to get this stuff set up on my G5, and I've got the next several days off, so keep an eye out. Oh, and post your machines specs here so I have a better idea of what's going on. I'm editing all my patches right now to accomodate the APC40 (which I've had for a couple of days now), so now is the time to get this stuff fixed ;)

Thanks for the feedback and the kind words!
http://www.aumhaa.com for Monomod and other m4l goodies.

Rhythmbox
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Re: Monomod & its Children (b92)

Post by Rhythmbox » Fri Jul 02, 2010 12:34 pm

Thanks for the detailed reply, I certainly am digging it!

Work machine is a 2.66 Quad (2 x Intel duos) Mac Pro running OSX 10.6.3 so no slouch, but carrying a lot of accumulated baggage... as our store guinea pig it's seen a lot of action the past year or two. Running Live 8.1.3 and latest MaxforLive 5.1.4 download.

Home system is 2.40 quad core running Vista 32bit, Ableton 8.1.3 and Max 5.10.
Borrowed a Launchpad and tried monomod simple and TR256 again (I keep looking for an excuse to buy a Launchpad, but have an iPad already, so can't wait to try that next - genius touch including TouchOSC support!)

Happily, timing felt much tighter here, but a swing bypass would still really suit me :) Recording the midi output with a simple hihat pattern on every 16th note I noticed some notes were curiously short. Notes 3, 9, and 11 are all very short in every bar. Is this some side effect of the swing engine or just random voodoo?

Have an APC40 here at work also, so let me know if you need any extra feedback on that.

Thanks again.

amounra93
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Re: Monomod & its Children (b92)

Post by amounra93 » Fri Jul 02, 2010 4:48 pm

Weird...not what I expected to hear. Maybe take a look at the M4L (Max) scheduler settings and make sure they are set to default...there's info in the help files for Max about that. I wouldn't expect you to have any issues with timing on a quad-core. I'd love to figure out what's happening there...

In the next release, turning swing to 1.0 will completely turn it off, and I'm going to set up some quantized swing values instead of "free swing" (the way it is now) to save on cpu cycles. The entire "monomod" pertinent part of each patch needs to be abstracted, but I can't do that until 5.15 comes out and (hopefully) pattr issues are fixed. Until then, I'll probably just hotfix TR256 for you, since I have to handcode everything into each individual patch until I can create abstractions.

I'm thinking there has to be a better way to do the swing thing in MSP, but it will have to wait for a bit as well.

RE:short notes. Hmmmm. Dunno. I'll check that out....if the note STARTS on time, its got nothing to do with swing. I think that patch uses makenote, which shouldn't do that.

Hopefully I figure out away at some point to do all this directly in a clip....

Let me know how the iPad stuff works out for you...I haven't heard from anyone that's gotten it working. Its likely going to change a great deal before its released again, doing everything with API calls is pretty cumbersome.
http://www.aumhaa.com for Monomod and other m4l goodies.

11olsen
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Re: Monomod & its Children (b92)

Post by 11olsen » Wed Jul 07, 2010 12:06 am

i like this. everything is in live, no routing outside and back into live needed. with plinko i can#t find the program windows to manipulate the scale on win xp.?

still checking out the other ports.
do you plan to port some more apps into monomod?

amounra93
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Re: Monomod & its Children (b92)

Post by amounra93 » Wed Jul 07, 2010 4:29 am

I made the buttons too small, sorry. Its up at the top under the Monomod channel:

Image

I do plan to publish some other plugins that I've created.

I will port other plugs as I have time, but mainly I'm waiting on a fix for pattr (hopefully 5.15) so that I can put all the Monomod specific tools in a single abstract, and then people can just drop it in most monome style plugs without needing to do much extra work.

Here's my current timetable:

Finish Monomod for APC40(almost done...just sorting out a few details)
Add swing bypass and swing quantize to timing engine
Release Loopview beta (Sooperlooper frontend and sequence editor)
Release Life beta (another generative rhythmic plug using Conway's rules)
Release Monolink (utility for using monomod with external Max patches for monome)

Hopefully in there somewhere h3xl3r releases a new version of TouchOSC that supports dynamic color changing, so I can finish that.

The GUI's on all the plugs need makeovers, but I'm afraid I spend more time programming functionality than I do in explaining it or making it accessible. Let me know if you have any other trouble, and thanks for the good feedback :)
http://www.aumhaa.com for Monomod and other m4l goodies.

amounra93
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Re: Monomod & its Children (b92)

Post by amounra93 » Thu Jul 08, 2010 6:41 pm

@rhythmbox

I just discovered that for whatever reason, the swing engine is completely fubarred again....you were right. I will add universal bypass and (hopefully) get swing working again pronto. It should be easier now that I have a working pattr object....

(if anyone needs to change it themselves, the metro in [max_swing] just needs to have its interval turned down to something lower, like 2-5ms)
http://www.aumhaa.com for Monomod and other m4l goodies.

11olsen
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Re: Monomod & its Children (b92)

Post by 11olsen » Sat Jul 10, 2010 11:24 pm

what's the reason you made your own emulator ? what's the difference to nonome/ monomemu routed to a max4life monome app?

amounra93
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Re: Monomod & its Children (b92)

Post by amounra93 » Sun Jul 11, 2010 2:28 am

I honestly haven't used monomeemu or nonome. I started this framework before either of those were released while building an emulator for multitouch on iPod's and PCs. Its merely my own implementation of stuff. I'd be making it whether I released it or not, just because I have my own peculiar needs.

I offer it here as an alternative to the others, and as a learning tool for people who want to take apart my patches and see how they work.

I think it offers some things other emulators don't: multicolor feedback is the main one. Also, modularity: all the basic controls of the child plugin are taken care of by the host plugin (handling of modes, updating of screens, filtration of duplicate states, timing states, etc.) There is no extra-application communication. Everything takes place in live. All settings should be saved and recalled correctly, between presets and live save/restore sessions.

Monomod started out as a Multitouch app running on a tablet notebook w/win7RC, Mathieu Chamagne's MaxMultitouchFramework, and another applet called W2TUIO.

It all worked, but it existed on a beta system and, even more to my distaste, on a PC. So I ditched it when it looked like the iPad's release was imminent. Now that the iPad is here, I'm STILL waiting on a way to do multicolor grids. TouchOSC hopefully will fulfill this soon. I'm getting tired of waiting. In the meantime I started working with a Launchpad (thus the implementation for it), and most recently got an APC40 (hopefully I'll get the stuff for it up today or tomorrow).
http://www.aumhaa.com for Monomod and other m4l goodies.

11olsen
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Re: Monomod & its Children (b92)

Post by 11olsen » Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:57 pm

ahh thanks, now after checking out monomod again i understand.

i was testing everything the last days (since i'm a launchpad owner):
monoemu / nomone + several m4l monome apps, stretta monome suite, 7up 2.0
and monomod of course

now i recognize monomod is the most stable one for me and
to have the extra keys on the right is very nice, don't like to switch play/pattern mode in press cafe with the mouse for example

nomnome needs less cpu power

but is it right it depends on your time and motivation if there gonna be more apps ported to monomod?
(i love the melodizer in 7up with all the scales and clever pad mapping,
i think drumwreck is nice with ability to seqeunce 32 steps on a 64 matrix, (only watched a video))
EDIT:
was reading 2 posts before, swing would be nice, and monolink sounds nice but it cancels the advantages of monomod

are you interested in bug reports and feature request ?
(for example alittle bug is that in boing_b92 reset at note mapping resets velocity and other way round)

does it require a lot of knowledge/time to port an app to monomod ?

oh yes many questions..
and sorry , not a native english speaker
greets

ps: how can i recall sequences in boing_b92/ press cafe_b92? it's not saved with the project.

amounra93
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Re: Monomod & its Children (b92)

Post by amounra93 » Mon Jul 12, 2010 7:45 pm

nomnome needs less cpu power
probably the swing algorithm that is used in each of the plugins. I will add an option to turn this off completely on a per/plug basis in future versions.
was reading 2 posts before, swing would be nice,
I spent a couple of days rewriting the swing engine. It is bug free and more efficient now. Turning swing to 0% turns off swing completely. Timing is greatly improved.
are you interested in bug reports and feature request ?
(for example alittle bug is that in boing_b92 reset at note mapping resets velocity and other way round)
Yes and yes. boinngg: I wasn't aware of that, it's an easy fix, and will be updated in next release today or tomorrow.

Code: Select all

does it require a lot of knowledge/time to port an app to monomod ?
Making them work with Monomod isn't very hard. The preset handling is a pain....its different for every one. But the main functionality will be gainable by including a single abstract and wiring it up to a couple of key points. I'm going to work on this later this week, it probably won't make the next release. It will make development of all the plugs easier, currently I'm having to hand-code additions to each plug-in seperately.

I will be making a plug soon that works with native monome apps (i.e. via OSC), so that apps can still function with Monomod even if they are not completely ported. Of course, this will preclude the ability to use monomod functionality (timing, presets, mode-triggering, etc).

Code: Select all

ps: how can i recall sequences in boing_b92/ press cafe_b92? it's not saved with the project.
Presets in Cafe worked for me when I released it...I'll look into it. I haven't added any preset capabilities to Boinngg, I don't think there were originally? I'll look into it when I get a chance.


Thanks for the feedback ;)
http://www.aumhaa.com for Monomod and other m4l goodies.

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