petition: tighten move playing position in M4L

Questions and discussion about building and using Max for Live devices
tchan
Posts: 48
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2010 9:21 pm
Location: Toronto, Canada

petition: tighten move playing position in M4L

Post by tchan » Sat Jul 24, 2010 5:22 pm

Greetings. I'm an enthusiastic end user of the "live clip chopper" m4l patch which enables me to chop Live clips and replay the samples on my monome. The patch has grown by leaps and bounds since January. However, there has always been an intermittent timing issue between a monome button press and moving the clip playing position in Live.

The developer, nonagon, first described the problem in cycling 74's forum:

http://cycling74.com/forums/topic.php?id=23924

Specifically:

-----

"it appears that every call to move_playing_pos causes Live to re-trigger the clip. This isn't noticeable in the audio stream while chopping, but it does cause the first LED on the monome to flash briefly whenever the playing position is changed. We can also see this in the playing position data, for example:

If the clip is playing back on a monome with 8 buttons in a row, clip playback will normally progress sequentially, lighting the buttons on the row in sequence:

0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 ...

If a button is pressed during playback, the playing position jumps to the associated with that button. For example, if button 2 is pressed partway through playback, the stream might look like this:

0 1 2 3 4 5 2 3 ...

What we're seeing though, is a momentary 0 in the stream:
0 1 2 3 4 5 0 2 3 ...

which corresponds to the retriggering of the clip."

"big problem here is that the observed playing position of the clip jumps to zero momentarily whenever the position is changed…you should be able to see a discontinuity in playing position (jumping to zero) every time you set the playing position to a non-zero value."

-----

After reading the entire thread, it sounds like this issue with the move playing position is related to Live's core development. Is there a workaround or a solution to help improve the performance of this awesome patch?

Thanks for your consideration!


---Related Threads---

http://cycling74.com/forums/topic.php?id=23924
http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=144018
http://docs.monome.org/doku.php?id=app: ... ip_chopper

---Growing user base & New developments---

http://createdigitalmusic.com/2010/07/2 ... new-album/
http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=146364

souladventurer
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2009 10:52 pm

Re: petition: tighten move playing position in M4L

Post by souladventurer » Sat Jul 24, 2010 5:50 pm

+1

also, when creating subloops, things seem to go wonky. so if i were to create a loop between 3 and 4, the playing position does jump around a bit.

altoaiello
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2009 8:24 pm

Re: petition: tighten move playing position in M4L

Post by altoaiello » Sat Jul 24, 2010 6:01 pm

It is true. It seems there is a problem on Live's end which makes much less usable what could be a revolutionary patch. When this issue is resolved, several people will immediately be very pleased, and their subsequent music-making will be a big plus for others considering purchasing Max for Live.

drones
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:25 pm
Location: paris, france

Re: petition: tighten move playing position in M4L

Post by drones » Sun Jul 25, 2010 11:13 am

+1
It would be so great if LCC could trigger clips as mlr. As I said in Cycling '74 Forums, it's one of the reason I get a monome: beeing able to control clips into ableton as mlr.

rawore
Posts: 56
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 4:24 pm

Re: petition: tighten move playing position in M4L

Post by rawore » Sun Jul 25, 2010 3:11 pm

more than six months on this acknowledged problem? bugfix

slaykent
Posts: 96
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 6:29 pm

Re: petition: tighten move playing position in M4L

Post by slaykent » Sun Jul 25, 2010 8:15 pm

+1 This is the only thing holding me back for purchasing M4L

pukunui
Posts: 405
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2009 10:26 pm
Location: Los Angeles

Re: petition: tighten move playing position in M4L

Post by pukunui » Sun Jul 25, 2010 11:15 pm

Who maintains MLR?

-A

tchan
Posts: 48
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2010 9:21 pm
Location: Toronto, Canada

Re: petition: tighten move playing position in M4L

Post by tchan » Mon Jul 26, 2010 3:02 pm

mlr seems to have splintered into different directions from brian (tehn) crabtree's original patch. however, the 'spawn' patches are actively maintained and appear to be moving forward with new features.

andrew, was there a specific question you want answered? i have a feeling you're swamped as it is so i'll happily be the messenger and cross-post messages to the monome forums.

in the meantime, i've compiled a resource list of mlr-related patches in case you want to check under the hood at the max programming ;-)


mlr 2.27 (original patch, not actively updated)
http://docs.monome.org/doku.php?id=app:mlr
developer: tehn (brian crabtree)

mlrV (visual extension of mlr)
http://docs.monome.org/doku.php?id=mlr:mlrv
developer: enjoi (trent gill)

mlr 2.51 (aka the 'daedelus mlr patch', ACTIVELY maintained)
http://post.monome.org/comments.php?DiscussionID=4118
developer: enjoi (trent gill)

mlr 2.27 m4l (direct port to m4l, ACTIVELY updated)
http://docs.monome.org/doku.php?id=app: ... maxforlive
http://post.monome.org/comments.php?DiscussionID=6808
developer: stevieraysean (sean pierce)

pucklermuskau
Posts: 118
Joined: Thu Nov 18, 2004 7:26 pm
Contact:

Re: petition: tighten move playing position in M4L

Post by pucklermuskau » Mon Jul 26, 2010 4:29 pm

+1

I really want to be able to reliably jump around within clips, rather than have to mess with a buffer. Please fix!
i drop on the lokeymassive

pukunui
Posts: 405
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2009 10:26 pm
Location: Los Angeles

Re: petition: tighten move playing position in M4L

Post by pukunui » Mon Jul 26, 2010 4:57 pm

ok thanks Mr tchan

I emailed Sean. Let's try and get to the bottom of this

-A

tchan
Posts: 48
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2010 9:21 pm
Location: Toronto, Canada

Re: petition: tighten move playing position in M4L

Post by tchan » Mon Jul 26, 2010 8:19 pm

awesome! thanks for looking into this andrew :)

cheers,
trevor

Crubier
Posts: 51
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2009 8:37 am
Location: Toulouse, France

Re: petition: tighten move playing position in M4L

Post by Crubier » Mon Jul 26, 2010 8:54 pm

+1

In fact, more generally, we need a more time-accurate live API.

ohmpow
Posts: 35
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2003 6:32 pm

Re: petition: tighten move playing position in M4L

Post by ohmpow » Mon Jul 26, 2010 10:18 pm

Would love to this issue fixed as well!
AMD AthlonXP 2400 2.0GHz, Windows XP, 120 gig HD, 1 gig ram,padKontrol,
M-Audio delta 44, Reaktor 5, Live 7

XPM
Posts: 304
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2004 1:20 pm
Location: UK
Contact:

Re: petition: tighten move playing position in M4L

Post by XPM » Fri Jul 30, 2010 5:57 am

I am also interested in this. It could really allow the ultimate mix between MLR and Live.

Any news?
Image

tchan
Posts: 48
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2010 9:21 pm
Location: Toronto, Canada

Re: petition: tighten move playing position in M4L

Post by tchan » Mon Aug 02, 2010 6:10 pm

Hi Andrew,

Has anyone (ie. Sean or the Ableton crew) responded to your inquiries? Was also wondering if Troy's workaround max patch in the cycling forum could help solve the 'jumping to zero' problem with the clip move playing position?

http://cycling74.com/forums/topic.php?id=27698

Cheers,
:tc

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