LFO everything 1.6 ....... faster, simpler, cleaner !

Questions and discussion about building and using Max for Live devices

neuromodulator
Posts: 84
Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:05 am

Re: LFO everything 1.6 ....... faster, simpler, cleaner !

Post by neuromodulator » Sun Jan 23, 2011 9:23 pm

No, see, that's the problem. "Peace" is a nice sentiment to call upon when it's actually a principle you hold; you know, part of being nice to others (which would also include things like, oh, say, apologizing when you're in the wrong or not taking credit for the work of other people). "Peace" isn't some blanket defence that you can call down that makes you sound like you're being the bigger person because "you're being peaceful in the face of aggression here". That's not how it works, and no one here is convinced that you're being the greater person by your weak invocation of a principle you don't apparently hold except in self-defence.

pucklermuskau
Posts: 118
Joined: Thu Nov 18, 2004 7:26 pm
Contact:

Re: LFO everything 1.6 ....... faster, simpler, cleaner !

Post by pucklermuskau » Sun Jan 23, 2011 9:31 pm

i find it interesting that juliens response to this is to quite rightly strip out the offending code and replace it with his own. However, in so doing, he attaches a cc-by-3.0 license, which is exactly the license he failed to follow. No one should have a problem with taking open source code and re-using it. That's all well and good. The only problem here is failing to live up to the license of the open-source code, which in this case, required that he acknowledge the person responsible through attribution. This is peace my friend, it's not war, it's people vocally standing up and telling you that what you did was not acceptable. Now man up, apologize, and move on with your life. There's really no other way to resolve this.
i drop on the lokeymassive

julienb
Posts: 1795
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2005 1:15 pm
Contact:

Re: LFO everything 1.6 ....... faster, simpler, cleaner !

Post by julienb » Sun Jan 23, 2011 9:35 pm

at least in this thread (or the other one), whatever I say, I'm sure I'll have at least 10 posts after me which will try to kill me, with words.
is it peace?

LF0 1.61 is the only one.
previous versions are past.
even that isn't enough.

btw, this was my last post about that (the real, this one)

Random Mullets
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2011 7:33 pm

Re: LFO everything 1.6 ....... faster, simpler, cleaner !

Post by Random Mullets » Sun Jan 23, 2011 9:43 pm

I think Julien don't understand the meaning of peace.

You want peace , try to respect the community in first.

Random Mullets
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2011 7:33 pm

Re: LFO everything 1.6 ....... faster, simpler, cleaner !

Post by Random Mullets » Sun Jan 23, 2011 9:47 pm

it's a little bit easy to said that the"new one" is the only one and very arrogant to pretend that the other are past . it's not an elegant conclusion.

neuromodulator
Posts: 84
Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:05 am

Re: LFO everything 1.6 ....... faster, simpler, cleaner !

Post by neuromodulator » Sun Jan 23, 2011 10:10 pm

Okay, here's an example of what I think would actually be a good response:

"Everybody. I obviously made an error. The reason that I used Edward's code without really thinking about was because it seemed to me that an LFO was such a simple construction, at its heart, that there was no need to start from scratch. I thought I would put a nice package on it, made it a bit more user friendly, and that it would be reasonable to charge a bit for the extra work I put in. I really, honestly, did not think about it very much as I was doing it.

The community reaction has made it obvious that I should have, and now that I stop to think about it, I can see why you object to me charging for something someone else was giving away. Again, I would like to stress that this was partly due to what I perceived as the simplicity/commonness of an LFO object, though I don't think that excuses it.

I'm sorry to Edward for any offence that I've caused, and I've removed his code from a newer version of my object. I'll also be much more careful about doing this again in the future."

THEN you get to say, "Peace," because it sounds like you mean something other than "leave me alone".

Or what salamanderanagram said.

Random Mullets
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2011 7:33 pm

Re: LFO everything 1.6 ....... faster, simpler, cleaner !

Post by Random Mullets » Sun Jan 23, 2011 10:27 pm

Neuromodulator +12

pucklermuskau
Posts: 118
Joined: Thu Nov 18, 2004 7:26 pm
Contact:

Re: LFO everything 1.6 ....... faster, simpler, cleaner !

Post by pucklermuskau » Sun Jan 23, 2011 10:29 pm

+1 to the well written post from neuromodulator above. Communication and humbleness are two essential characteristics of the good businessman. If you want to sell your products, then you have the obligation to be a good businessman. Otherwise, embrace your independence and give away your work. If you want to engage in a partnership, then you have to engage with the concerns of your clients (i.e. me and those that have purchased your well crafted product). Otherwise, slap a BSD license on it and walk away...anyhow, all the best, i don't really perceive the need for any hard feelings involved in this. It's just education my friend ;]
i drop on the lokeymassive

hydrogen
Posts: 60
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:01 am

Re: LFO everything 1.6 ....... faster, simpler, cleaner !

Post by hydrogen » Sun Jan 23, 2011 11:21 pm

Give it a rest guys. He replaced the "copied" code.

You all raise some good points about open source software but quit making silly demands for apology.

Random Mullets
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2011 7:33 pm

Re: LFO everything 1.6 ....... faster, simpler, cleaner !

Post by Random Mullets » Sun Jan 23, 2011 11:34 pm

i don't think that a little bit of honesty and humility would Kill Julien ....
silly maybe for you .
For me that point is more important than a code rewrite to save in extremis the situation /

stringtapper
Posts: 6273
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:21 pm

Re: LFO everything 1.6 ....... faster, simpler, cleaner !

Post by stringtapper » Sun Jan 23, 2011 11:48 pm

hydrogen wrote:Give it a rest guys. He replaced the "copied" code.

You all raise some good points about open source software but quit making silly demands for apology.
It's not about an apology (for me at least). It's about keeping people who aim to sell to the community honest, which Julien has yet to be about what happened. Potential customers deserve to be aware of that.
Unsound Designer

Random Mullets
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2011 7:33 pm

Re: LFO everything 1.6 ....... faster, simpler, cleaner !

Post by Random Mullets » Mon Jan 24, 2011 12:09 am

i agree with Stringtapper.

salamanderanagram
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 3:10 am

Re: LFO everything 1.6 ....... faster, simpler, cleaner !

Post by salamanderanagram » Mon Jan 24, 2011 12:45 am

"Give it a rest guys. He replaced the "copied" code. "

this is not the relevant issue. the issue is an utter lack of honesty coupled with an unrepentant attitude. someone who pulls an act like this and is not shamed by public outcry is likely to repeat the transgression.

Surreal
Posts: 560
Joined: Wed May 17, 2006 1:18 am

Re: LFO everything 1.6 ....... faster, simpler, cleaner !

Post by Surreal » Mon Jan 24, 2011 1:31 am

At the very least, he replaced the code. Credit where it is due. I agree that a simple, honest seeming, apology would have been the only other thing needed to salve it all.

Julien, the internet is terrible with inflection and rife with exaggerated sentiments and it honestly sounds like you are a bit too hurt by the outcry a bit too much to see that all anyone wanted was a bit of accountability for what could have been a mistake or an attempt at foul play. I doubt that you were really trying to pull anything (though my opinion is only one), but it does seem like you made an error of judgement. not the worst thing in the world to do and certainly understandable. At this point, a simple apology really would do a lot to quell the clamor.

Everyone demanding an apology from Julien - Again, he was bothered enough to change the offending code. In the end, an apology is between him and Edward. A public apology 'would be nice' but is a separate gesture. Either you think he was malicious or not. Either you read him removing the code as an 'admission' or an 'apology'. Regardless, I am quite sure Julien will avoid a mishap like this again. To say that he 'will likely do it again' because he didn't apologize is a bit much.

Post Reply