recording automation from Max For Live devices

Questions and discussion about building and using Max for Live devices
hcaz
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2010 8:48 pm

recording automation from Max For Live devices

Post by hcaz » Wed Feb 23, 2011 1:42 am

Apologies if this seems obvious, but I still feel like a noob with Live, despite having used Max for quite a while. What's the best way to go about recording automation curves from Max For Live devices? Specifically, let's say I'm sending data to M4L.api.DeviceParameterRemote or something similar and want to record the curves in MIDI clips to save and apply to multiple parameters. I've tried approaching this from several angles, but still am having trouble wrapping my head around how live handles this.

Thanks,
Zach

Michael Hatsis
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Re: recording automation from Max For Live devices

Post by Michael Hatsis » Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:19 am

Live.remote~ does not allow for automation ( as far as i know ) as you'll notice when you bind a parameter in Live to it that param will get greyed out. you should use live.object for this. you could simply use the M4L.api.DeviceParameter.maxpat abstraction instead of what you are using and that will allow you to record automation. Not as smooth as live.remote~ though and will lock up your undo history as well.

S4racen
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Re: recording automation from Max For Live devices

Post by S4racen » Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:37 pm

I use live.remotes and record the automation by routing the messages that are sent through to the live.remote through a live.number first...

Cheers
D

hcaz
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2010 8:48 pm

Re: recording automation from Max For Live devices

Post by hcaz » Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:41 pm

I tried both methods.

I can't figure out how to record the automation using M4L.api.DeviceParameter.maxpat. Can you please give more detail?

Using live.remote~ and live.numbox, I am able select the numbox's scripting name in arrangement view and see the value changing. However, once I press record it gets grayed out because it's being automated by an MFL device.

Also, I guess one of the big drawbacks with Live is that you can't record automation on clips in session view? I'm planning on recording lots of different automation curves from one device, so I guess I'm going to have to resort to using grouped tracks and replicating the device on every track?

Clearly struggling here...

stax67
Posts: 81
Joined: Sun May 04, 2008 11:47 am
Location: Swindon, England

Re: recording automation from Max For Live devices

Post by stax67 » Thu Feb 24, 2011 12:32 pm

You can fake the recording of automation to clips (see link)

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/feb09/a ... h_0209.htm

You could make the M4L device output midi cc's and use the above method to route the midi cc's to the device you want and map using standard midi mapping (device controls will not get greyed out) and record automation to a clip.

When you play the clip back your automation gets replayed.

hcaz
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2010 8:48 pm

Re: recording automation from Max For Live devices

Post by hcaz » Thu Feb 24, 2011 9:04 pm

Thanks! I've used the IAC driver before and think this might be the best method for what I need. What I have no idea about is how to output MIDI CC from Max. Any help?

hcaz
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2010 8:48 pm

Re: recording automation from Max For Live devices

Post by hcaz » Fri Feb 25, 2011 2:40 am

Figured it out: [ctlout]. This is almost exactly what I wanted, with one drawback: I have to record the automation on a different track from the device.

stax67
Posts: 81
Joined: Sun May 04, 2008 11:47 am
Location: Swindon, England

Re: recording automation from Max For Live devices

Post by stax67 » Fri Feb 25, 2011 8:39 am

Glad to help.

It's a bit annoying having the extra track but I think it is a small price for recording automation.

Cheers,
Stax.

hcaz
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2010 8:48 pm

Re: recording automation from Max For Live devices

Post by hcaz » Tue Mar 01, 2011 10:03 pm

Hmm, so it appears the automation doesn't warp with the MIDI notes. Any workaround here?

Thanks,
Zach

hcaz
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2010 8:48 pm

Re: recording automation from Max For Live devices

Post by hcaz » Wed Mar 02, 2011 9:17 pm

And one more thing: I'm in a situation where I want one LFO to modulate the frequency of another with then modulates an audio effect parameter, all via the IAC Driver. This is getting a little confusing. How would I configure the MIDI sends and receives of the various track?

Thanks,
Zach

broc
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Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2004 8:37 am

Re: recording automation from Max For Live devices

Post by broc » Thu Mar 03, 2011 10:24 am

Not sure why you'd need MIDI send/receive on various tracks.
Modulation chains across tracks can easily be done in M4L with live.remote~.

Valiumdupeuple
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Re: recording automation from Max For Live devices

Post by Valiumdupeuple » Thu Mar 03, 2011 1:00 pm

For the clip automation recording in session view, try this patch.
Put it on the track where you need automation (this patch only works on midi tracks). Learn your controller knobs with the plug-in's learn function. Choose the device parameters you want to automate.
This should work.


Code: Select all

<pre><code>
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-----------end_max5_patcher-----------
</code></pre>

hcaz
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2010 8:48 pm

Re: recording automation from Max For Live devices

Post by hcaz » Sun Mar 06, 2011 10:07 pm

I'm having some trouble getting recording to work with your device. I also can't seem to get it to learn parameters from other tracks. Finally (and probably not your fault), it seems to be making Live crash a lot.

The bottom line is that I'd rather use Live as a host for modules patched in Max rather than use Max as a scripting language for live. First of all, Max is ill suited to that sort of thing. I've also just always hated working with object models- it takes away most of the immediacy of Max from me, if that makes any sense. I'd rather patch effects in Max and route all parameters through Live so that I can see how they're connected on the screen in session view. This means not using individual implementations of live.remote~.

As for automation between two Max effects, I'd like to achieve the same modularity with my own patches for efficiency in reconfiguring them. In other words, having four copies of a device with just one LFO routed together through Live is much preferable to one device with four LFOs and some kind of internal routing structure I'd have to patch together.

I hope this makes sense, it's really more philosophical than anything.

Thanks,
Zach

hcaz
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2010 8:48 pm

Re: recording automation from Max For Live devices

Post by hcaz » Sun Mar 06, 2011 10:25 pm

Btw, I FINALLY got this working using multiple channels on the IAC driver bus without making Live crash. This is definitely an area where Ableton could work on the stability...probably just by eliminating the need for this workaround entirely.

Valiumdupeuple
Posts: 1049
Joined: Mon May 31, 2010 12:36 pm
Contact:

Re: recording automation from Max For Live devices

Post by Valiumdupeuple » Mon Mar 07, 2011 9:16 am

It doesn't require IAC. And it's supposed to only search devices on the same track.
I have a new patch, but it requires Live 8.2.2 (beta for the moment).

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