VIDEO: nudge forward/backward

Questions and discussion about building and using Max for Live devices
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mc-lemons
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 12:29 am

VIDEO: nudge forward/backward

Post by mc-lemons » Mon Jul 11, 2011 4:23 pm

Hi everyone,
Total max for live noob here (just started tutorials, and basically all I know is what a “bang” and “number box” is). I just want to know if it is possible (and if so, maybe give some guidance as where to start) to make a device which nudges VIDEO forward and backward a set amount (not nudging tempo, but the play needle by, say 1/4, 1/8, etc. of a measure).

I found out while trying to figure out how to do this, that Live already has this ability built into it, but for AUDIO only. And the audio must be placed in SESSION view for the feature to work. The “nudge forward” and “nudge backward” controls are found under a track's “Clip View”. They are the buttons with the “<<” & “>>” on them, right below the button that says “Commit.” These buttons remain greyed out until the track of interest begins to play. The amount that that these buttons nudge the needle backward/forward is controlled by the setting of the “Quantization Menu”, which is a dropdown menu located with the group of buttons near the top middle (the group with play, stop, record, overdub, etc.). Sorry if I’m insulting anyone who knows Live very well, and doesn't need my detailed explanations, I don’t mean to, I just want to be clear.

Since, I need this feature to work for videos, this would need to work in Arrangement view. And I would need the nudge controls to be key mappable/assignable for control during live performance.

So in summary:

-Is this possible?
-If so, would it hard or easy to do?
-Anyone willing to get me started on this, (sorry for my noob-ness!)?

Thanks

Gregory Taylor
Posts: 268
Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 3:11 pm

Re: VIDEO: nudge forward/backward

Post by Gregory Taylor » Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:05 pm

There are two ways to do nonlinear playback of movies in Jitter.

By choosing a specific frame using the "frame $1" message.

By jumping a relative amount of frames using the "jump $1" message.

This presumes that you're familiar with the structure of a quicktime movie (i.e. how it internally keeps time, the relationship between framecounts and movie length, etc.). You might start by spending some quality time in the jit.qt.movie helpfile.

mc-lemons
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 12:29 am

Re: VIDEO: nudge forward/backward

Post by mc-lemons » Tue Jul 12, 2011 12:46 am

Gregory,

Thanks for the reply! I am unfamiliar with Jitter. I understand that it has something to do with video customization, but thats about it! Can i access Jitter with Max for Live (I don't have Regular Max 5, just M4L)? I will look into the help file you mentioned, but I also wonder if its really simple (not that your approach isn't as I really have no clue either way, i'm just wondering if it can be done with some basic M4L objects without Jitter). Literally, all i need is a method to control forward and backward location changes to the insertion/play needle in the arrangement view during playback. The skipping doesn't need to pertain to an individual clip, so moving the needle forward or backward will not screw up the play position of other tracks because the video is the only track in the Live set! (not counting a couple M4L & Live devices, but those don't rely on the position of the needle to function)

Maybe explaining the 2 work-a-rounds i have used will better illustrate what I'm trying to do. Both of these are with arrangement view active.

Workaround 1:
While the Live set is playing, I move my mouse right below where the bars of each measure are shown (the area where the mouse display turns into the little speaker/volume icon), and I manually click either ahead or behind the needle. This really is not even a workaround, more like a last resort, as it is hard to be precise, and the skip is not instantaneous (Live won't skip to that point till its on-beat). I have never used this method in a live performance because I found out about the second method below.


Workaround 2:
On the video clip's "Clip view" I select the start marker by clicking the little flag at the top of it (it turns a dark color when clicked). This can be done before or during playback. Once it is selected, I can then use either the right (to go forward) or the left (to go backward) arrows keys to skip, and the amount that each keypress skips the needle forward/backward is determined by the setting of the "Marker Snap" which is displayed at the lower right hand corner of the track's "Clip view". The marker snap is basically just the zoom level you are at, so when I am zoomed to a level where each grid line represents 1/8 of a measure, each keypress of the arrow keys will send the needle forward/backward 1/8 of a measure. This obviously works a million times better than Workaround 1. And this method IS instantaneous (skip occurs as soon as I press the arrow keys) However, the second I click anything else, the start marker is DE-selected and the arrows don't do a thing (or do other things). So thats why I was hoping for some controls that could be mapped to 2 different keys so that no matter what I was doing, I would achieve the same effect that I get from the second workaround. Really, if Ableton could have just made the nudge feature available in arrangement view, all my problems would be solved.

Maybe I'm crazy (good chance) and what I'm suggesting is way more complicated than your Jitter method. I don't know. I just seems like there should be an easy way to control a set forward or backward jump/skip/nudge of the play needle.

Also, I don't know if this changes anything (in regards to jitter), but I am running Live on a PC (specifically Windows 7).

Thanks again for the reply!

henke
Posts: 258
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2009 7:36 am

Re: VIDEO: nudge forward/backward

Post by henke » Tue Jul 12, 2011 7:51 am

jitter is a set of video objects in max/ max for live. and gregory is right: jit.qt.movie is the thing you need to look at. create a new max for live device, create an object box, type in jit.qt.movie and open its helpfile via right mouse click...

you can play back movies, you can jump to specific positions, change the speed etc etc....


robert

mc-lemons
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Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 12:29 am

Re: VIDEO: nudge forward/backward

Post by mc-lemons » Tue Jul 12, 2011 4:41 pm

Thanks Robert & Gregory,

I will try this out and let you now if I have any problems! Do you think this is something a newbie could pull-off (with some reading of the help file of course)

I have another video question if you guys don't mind. I know that Live cannot natively play more than one video at a time. Even if there are two videos playing simultaneously, only one will be displayed in the video window. Is there anyway through jitter to enable the ability to have 2 video windows where Window 1 is displaying the video from one track and the Window 2 is displaying the video from another track concurrently?

henke
Posts: 258
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2009 7:36 am

Re: VIDEO: nudge forward/backward

Post by henke » Tue Jul 12, 2011 10:51 pm

maybe have a look at this first: http://fabriziopoce.com/max.html

and yes, jit.qt.movievis simple to understand...

robert

itsthejayj
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Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2006 11:01 am
Location: UK brighton

Re: VIDEO: nudge forward/backward

Post by itsthejayj » Sat Oct 08, 2011 11:28 pm

mc-lemons wrote:Thanks Robert & Gregory,
I have another video question if you guys don't mind. I know that Live cannot natively play more than one video at a time. Even if there are two videos playing simultaneously, only one will be displayed in the video window. Is there anyway through jitter to enable the ability to have 2 video windows where Window 1 is displaying the video from one track and the Window 2 is displaying the video from another track concurrently?
Don't know if you still looking for a solution for playing back more than one video within ableton, but if you are there is a project called just add music 2 that is kicking about, that does exactly that. Visit there facebook page http://www.facebook.com/justaddmusicmedia or http://www.justaddmusictv.com

Gregory Taylor
Posts: 268
Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 3:11 pm

Re: VIDEO: nudge forward/backward

Post by Gregory Taylor » Sun Oct 09, 2011 4:53 pm

If you're in some situation where you're outputting a single video but want to see multiple videos playing as a part of your interface in a M4L device front panel (for things like mixing, effects control, etc.), then it's trivial in Jitter. There is a standard object (jit.pwindow) expressly created for such things, as well as objects that would let you toggle through, say, multiple channels of playback, etc. If you're jonesing for floating windows you can move around, the jit.window object works fine for that, too.

It sounds to me as though you want to *output* more than one video to external projectors, if that's so, the most common way to do that in our neck of the woods would be to composite the two images using the jit.gl.videoplane object and combine that with some hardware that lets you share the double-wide image across more than one outputs/displays - say, a Matrox DualHead2Go.

http://www.matrox.com/graphics/en/products/gxm/

mc-lemons
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 12:29 am

Re: VIDEO: nudge forward/backward

Post by mc-lemons » Sun Oct 09, 2011 5:22 pm

Since my last post, I have developed the M4L device that meets my needs. When I posted at first, I had just started to scratch the surface using Max/Jitter, but I have since taken the time to learn how to patch with it, and figured out, like Gregory mentioned, that the task was trivial to do in jitter. I just run two separate jit.qt.movie's then route each in this manner:

jit.qt.movie > jit.gl.slab > jit.gl.videoplane > jit.window

I then made a UI for dragging and dropping each video into the device, along with several other features for making it useful for my needs.

Thanks for everyone's help and input!

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