Max 6 announced!

Questions and discussion about building and using Max for Live devices
ark
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Max 6 announced!

Post by ark » Tue Jul 12, 2011 7:14 pm


stringtapper
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Re: Max 6 announced!

Post by stringtapper » Tue Jul 12, 2011 7:24 pm

Effective immediately, we’re lowering the retail price of Max/MSP/Jitter to $399. We’re also lowering the price of some of our upgrade and academic options.
Wow. Great news for newcomers!
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stringtapper
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Re: Max 6 announced!

Post by stringtapper » Tue Jul 12, 2011 7:27 pm

Code generation technology will be available as an inexpensive add-on to Max 6. It focuses on areas where traditional patching has not been able to deliver the combination of performance and programmability that we wanted, namely DSP and GPU programming. What do we mean by “code generation”? Essentially, we translate the patch you make into text-based source code, and compile it on the spot. With code generation, we can optimize the entire patch, something that’s impossible with existing Max-like approaches.
8O
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stringtapper
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Re: Max 6 announced!

Post by stringtapper » Tue Jul 12, 2011 7:32 pm

In the DSP realm, our new gen~ object is a new domain of low-level signal processing operators that let you build recursive filters, delays, spectral processors, and sound generators, all using 64-bit floating-point internal precision. Not only do these things sound great, but the performance gains over equivalent Max patches are simply stunning. Where you could actually implement the same algorithm with MSP objects, a gen~ version will be up to 15 times faster. And in many cases, there is simply no way to implement the same kinds of DSP algorithms with MSP objects, you’d have to write C code. Not only is gen~ cross-platform, unlike C code, but in our tests, gen~ operators are nearly as fast as equivalent MSP objects written in C.
8O 8O
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stringtapper
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Re: Max 6 announced!

Post by stringtapper » Tue Jul 12, 2011 7:35 pm

And if you thought the "rounded corners" debate was entertaining…
we’ve introduced curved patch cords
:lol: :lol: :lol:
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stringtapper
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Re: Max 6 announced!

Post by stringtapper » Tue Jul 12, 2011 8:22 pm

Pricing and Availability
Max version 6 will be available fourth quarter 2011. For owners of Max/MSP 5 and Max/MSP/Jitter 5, the Max 6 upgrade retail price will be $199. Academic discounts will be available. Customers who purchase a new version of Max 5 (including MSP and Jitter) on or after July 12, 2011 will be eligible for a free upgrade to Max 6 when it becomes available. Effective July 12, 2011 the new retail price is $399.
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TheDriller
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Re: Max 6 announced!

Post by TheDriller » Tue Jul 12, 2011 8:50 pm

I suppose the main question is what effect will this have on Max For Live users?
will we be able to just download and install the new Max6 program or will there be some sort of *shudder* ....
paid upgrade to 'Max 6 For Live'

(ProTip: Abes, think long and hard before even attempting to make it a paid upgrade)

stringtapper
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Re: Max 6 announced!

Post by stringtapper » Tue Jul 12, 2011 9:04 pm

TheDriller wrote:I suppose the main question is what effect will this have on Max For Live users?
will we be able to just download and install the new Max6 program or will there be some sort of *shudder* ....
paid upgrade to 'Max 6 For Live'

(ProTip: Abes, think long and hard before even attempting to make it a paid upgrade)
Well, a new version of M4L is not the same thing as getting a new version of Operator. There are two companies involved and loads more development sunk into it. It's also not a part of Suite.

The question of whether it would be a paid upgrade probably rests more on how it will actually work rather than it being some money grab (which is what the unimaginative always seem to think is going on when money is involved at all). Specifically the question is whether the code that let's Max 5 connect with Live will need a simple update to work with Max 6. With the kinds of changes they're talking about with 6 it seems unlikely that anything less than an .X update of Live would be required.
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TheDriller
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Re: Max 6 announced!

Post by TheDriller » Tue Jul 12, 2011 9:22 pm

stringtapper wrote:
TheDriller wrote:I suppose the main question is what effect will this have on Max For Live users?
will we be able to just download and install the new Max6 program or will there be some sort of *shudder* ....
paid upgrade to 'Max 6 For Live'

(ProTip: Abes, think long and hard before even attempting to make it a paid upgrade)
Well, a new version of M4L is not the same thing as getting a new version of Operator. There are two companies involved and loads more development sunk into it. It's also not a part of Suite.

The question of whether it would be a paid upgrade probably rests more on how it will actually work rather than it being some money grab (which is what the unimaginative always seem to think is going on when money is involved at all). Specifically the question is whether the code that let's Max 5 connect with Live will need a simple update to work with Max 6. With the kinds of changes they're talking about with 6 it seems unlikely that anything less than an .X update of Live would be required.
and surely a .x update to Live would be free as they usually are?
What leaves me wondering is that the product I paid for is called "Max For Live", not "Max 5 For Live". Which leaves some ambiguity as to what the upgrade path would be when Max6 rolls along.

Another problem is that for many (or maybe most) M4L users, they only use Max in a passive way, just to get access to some of the tastier M4L devices, so the prospect of forking out X-hundred euro for something they dont really actively 'use' is not very appealing.

I hope the current M4L license will be usable with Max 6, as i feel that Live and M4L are expensive enough already without fleecing users further. :)

ark
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Re: Max 6 announced!

Post by ark » Tue Jul 12, 2011 9:23 pm

The way Ableton has handled such things in the past is that they have coordinated point releases of Live with point releases of Max. For example, IIRC Max 5.1 came out at the same time as Live 8.2, and if you wanted to use Max for Live with Live 8.2, you had to have the Max 5.1 runtime.

So I'm going to go out on a limb here and predict that Max 6 will coordinate with a new release of Live that will be called either Live 8.3 or Live 9. If you already have Max for Live, I'm going to guess that you'll be able to use the new version with a free Max 6 Runtime, and you'll have the option of buying the Max 6 upgrade separately if you wish.

Per Boysen
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Re: Max 6 announced!

Post by Per Boysen » Wed Jul 13, 2011 11:06 am

INteresting!
Greetings from Sweden

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Machinesworking
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Re: Max 6 announced!

Post by Machinesworking » Wed Jul 13, 2011 3:46 pm

I'm almost willing to bet that M4L releases will be tied to point upgrades. I wouldn't expect to see M4L 6 until Live 9. Considering the stability issues that Live 8 had when M4L was tied in mid product cycle, I doubt Ableton or Cycling want to see that happen again.

stringtapper
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Re: Max 6 announced!

Post by stringtapper » Wed Jul 13, 2011 4:17 pm

Machinesworking wrote:I'm almost willing to bet that M4L releases will be tied to point upgrades. I wouldn't expect to see M4L 6 until Live 9. Considering the stability issues that Live 8 had when M4L was tied in mid product cycle, I doubt Ableton or Cycling want to see that happen again.
I'm inclined to agree with you. I'm even wondering whether there might be a period where M4L is still tied to Max 5 even after Max 6 is released. We'll have to wait and see. One of the C74 guys said they'll be releasing the info on how Max 6 affects M4L "at a later date."
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Per Boysen
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Re: Max 6 announced!

Post by Per Boysen » Wed Jul 13, 2011 4:59 pm

Any ideas if Max 6 will finally bring an upgrade discount for Pluggo owners? M4L didn't.
Greetings from Sweden

Per Boysen
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stringtapper
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Re: Max 6 announced!

Post by stringtapper » Wed Jul 13, 2011 5:15 pm

Per Boysen wrote:Any ideas if Max 6 will finally bring an upgrade discount for Pluggo owners? M4L didn't.
Again, everything regarding Max 6's impact on M4L is coming "at a later date."

That said, I could have sworn that they gave Pluggo owners a $50 coupon for M4L. It was detailed in this post:

http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php? ... 7#p1019617
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