Trying to create a VU meter that sends midi CC (audio>midi)

Questions and discussion about building and using Max for Live devices
exaltron
Posts: 193
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Location: Upper Manhattan, NY
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Trying to create a VU meter that sends midi CC (audio>midi)

Post by exaltron » Tue Aug 28, 2012 3:48 am

I created the device below using the multiband Max for Live example and a few other objects. Basically the idea is to take audio, split it into frequency bands, measure the dBs and then convert that number to a midi CC by banging a static CC number and grabbing the value from the dBs. Once the midi message is created, I have a midiformat object which is connected to a send object (with the receive object on another midi track).

Any reason why this wouldn't work? I imagine the dB values would have to be massaged somewhat to reflect the different scale, but I'm not getting anything at all coming through on the midi track. Maybe there is a better way to do this or an existing device that could accomplish what I'm trying to do- basically just meter different bands of audio and have those values drive some faders which in turn would send pulsewave mods to an arduino for LEDs. Any ideas?

Here's a screenshot:
Image

and the compressed device:

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Image

chapelier fou
Posts: 5189
Joined: Mon May 15, 2006 12:15 pm

Re: Trying to create a VU meter that sends midi CC (audio>midi)

Post by chapelier fou » Tue Aug 28, 2012 9:29 am

in the midiformat input, you got to send the controller number AND the value (a list of 2 values). What's going out of your packs is only one value.
That's all i can say having just a quick look at the picture. Hope this helps !
MacBook Pro 13" Retina i7 2.8 GHz OS 10.13, L10.0.1, M4L.
iMac 27" Retina i5 3,2 GHz OS 10.11.3 L10.0.1 M4L.

chapelier fou
Posts: 5189
Joined: Mon May 15, 2006 12:15 pm

Re: Trying to create a VU meter that sends midi CC (audio>midi)

Post by chapelier fou » Tue Aug 28, 2012 9:34 am

Sorry i was wrong.
Maybe a 't i i' before your packs can solve the problem. Anyway you should monitor what's going out of your packs. (again, i am just trying to figure it out from the screenshot)
MacBook Pro 13" Retina i7 2.8 GHz OS 10.13, L10.0.1, M4L.
iMac 27" Retina i5 3,2 GHz OS 10.11.3 L10.0.1 M4L.

chapelier fou
Posts: 5189
Joined: Mon May 15, 2006 12:15 pm

Re: Trying to create a VU meter that sends midi CC (audio>midi)

Post by chapelier fou » Tue Aug 28, 2012 9:37 am

in fact i don't see any reason for it not to be working...sorry.
MacBook Pro 13" Retina i7 2.8 GHz OS 10.13, L10.0.1, M4L.
iMac 27" Retina i5 3,2 GHz OS 10.11.3 L10.0.1 M4L.

trevox
Posts: 659
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2011 12:58 am

Re: Trying to create a VU meter that sends midi CC (audio>midi)

Post by trevox » Tue Aug 28, 2012 10:40 am

A couple of issues....

The output from the vu meter is between 0. and 1. So you need to multiply the output by 127 and then convert to a integer. Also, there's an easier way of creating the cc pair using a message object. I have altered one of the routings in you patch and pasted below. Let me know if this works for you.

Note that a LOT of midi cc messages will be sent given how frequently the output of the vu meter sends data - not sure what you intend to do with the cc data, but it could potentially be quite jumpy. I put a zl change object in there to at least avoid the duplicate values getting sent out!

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exaltron
Posts: 193
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2004 6:37 pm
Location: Upper Manhattan, NY
Contact:

Re: Trying to create a VU meter that sends midi CC (audio>midi)

Post by exaltron » Tue Aug 28, 2012 4:34 pm

chapelier fou wrote:in fact i don't see any reason for it not to be working...sorry.
Thanks anyway! Digging your music btw. Too bad I'm in the states- seems to be the only continent you don't perform in ;)
Image

chapelier fou
Posts: 5189
Joined: Mon May 15, 2006 12:15 pm

Re: Trying to create a VU meter that sends midi CC (audio>midi)

Post by chapelier fou » Tue Aug 28, 2012 5:27 pm

( ha ! hopefully some gigs to come...)
MacBook Pro 13" Retina i7 2.8 GHz OS 10.13, L10.0.1, M4L.
iMac 27" Retina i5 3,2 GHz OS 10.11.3 L10.0.1 M4L.

exaltron
Posts: 193
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2004 6:37 pm
Location: Upper Manhattan, NY
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Re: Trying to create a VU meter that sends midi CC (audio>midi)

Post by exaltron » Tue Aug 28, 2012 5:56 pm

trevox wrote:A couple of issues....

The output from the vu meter is between 0. and 1. So you need to multiply the output by 127 and then convert to a integer. Also, there's an easier way of creating the cc pair using a message object. I have altered one of the routings in you patch and pasted below. Let me know if this works for you.

Note that a LOT of midi cc messages will be sent given how frequently the output of the vu meter sends data - not sure what you intend to do with the cc data, but it could potentially be quite jumpy. I put a zl change object in there to at least avoid the duplicate values getting sent out!
@trevox thank you so much!! This is great. I was thinking about all the crazy data that would put out since this set up is taxing an already overloaded set. I guess I could use some kind of envelope follower to smooth and/or cull the data? I will give this a try now. Hopefully the send and receive objects will work going from an audio to a midi track. thanks again!
Image

exaltron
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Location: Upper Manhattan, NY
Contact:

Re: Trying to create a VU meter that sends midi CC (audio>midi)

Post by exaltron » Tue Aug 28, 2012 9:20 pm

Awesome, this seems to work as is, I got three bands of audio sending different values to an LED via Arduino!!! Only problem is all that data is causing bottlenecks to the point of crashing live. Definitely will be looking into some ways to limit the data points..
Image

chapelier fou
Posts: 5189
Joined: Mon May 15, 2006 12:15 pm

Re: Trying to create a VU meter that sends midi CC (audio>midi)

Post by chapelier fou » Tue Aug 28, 2012 10:41 pm

snapshot~ ?
MacBook Pro 13" Retina i7 2.8 GHz OS 10.13, L10.0.1, M4L.
iMac 27" Retina i5 3,2 GHz OS 10.11.3 L10.0.1 M4L.

exaltron
Posts: 193
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2004 6:37 pm
Location: Upper Manhattan, NY
Contact:

Re: Trying to create a VU meter that sends midi CC (audio>midi)

Post by exaltron » Tue Aug 28, 2012 11:29 pm

chapelier fou wrote:snapshot~ ?
I will post a snapshot but I think there's something missing now- I thought I had it working but it may have been an automation clip that was driving the LEDs. Can't reproduce it now :(

I can see that the cc data is coming through to the audio track but it doesn't seem like Live can recognize it when I go into midi learn mode. I wonder if Live can receive CC messages this way..
Image

chapelier fou
Posts: 5189
Joined: Mon May 15, 2006 12:15 pm

Re: Trying to create a VU meter that sends midi CC (audio>midi)

Post by chapelier fou » Wed Aug 29, 2012 8:22 am

i was talking about the 'snapshot~' object to limit the amount of data... :lol:
anyway i was drunk and i'm sure there are better ways.
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trevox
Posts: 659
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2011 12:58 am

Re: Trying to create a VU meter that sends midi CC (audio>midi)

Post by trevox » Wed Aug 29, 2012 10:15 pm

I would probably consider sending OSC data rather than midi as I've done it in the past for vu meters and it worked really well without breaking Live - doesn't seem to cause much bottleneck at all. You could try downsampling the audio signal (using the downsamp~ object) or a snapshot~ object could work too, but personally, I would go down the OSC route. If you're unfamiliar have a look at the "udpsend" and/or "udpreceive" help files. There are also some pretty useful externals for routing OSC at CNMAT. You can get them for free here:

http://cnmat.berkeley.edu/

Note that when using OSC, you can route the signal anywhere on your local network like other PC's, tablets, phones etc - can come in very handy. The examples in the help files use the local machines loopback IP address (127.0.0.1).

synnack_old
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Re: Trying to create a VU meter that sends midi CC (audio>midi)

Post by synnack_old » Thu Aug 30, 2012 1:43 pm

Here's how I did something similar. You'd just replace the send object with midi CC stuff. Also see qlim for rate limiting.


<pre><code>
----------begin_max5_patcher----------
842.3oc4Xt0aaBCE.9YxuBKdbJKx1.gvdqScSZRQqRSSZOTUMQ.mTWAlLrSW
2pZ9sOiMDfFHgjR65kWfXyw1G+4yMmaGXXNK4FB2D7Av4.CiaGXXn5JqCi71
Flw92DD4yUhYxH+NY1UlC0eRPtQn5lCld1O9zWOE+4omcx2K977Dlf4GSThb
RJ0OB7wjnvhOyVESYQDgZlQkclrRTzKrxLwo+UMSH3nhtWlR3DlvWPSX+LkD
HzaEjsTB.xBqdAQpWSFAAWTLNeQvkT1hJiwA5lIlyXmVGTkEqpFSCU6OIVdu
sYVW2MXP1igcDowDN2eAYKlNOk7K.FJUC4iQGCSwMxTztYpVRweVRzfwzrCX
yRyKWM3GWgZUnC18XvSD8ZxnXhfjt9.LbPssahnbQ4NhGQCIoAIQIo5umwgJ
OPsb9Wk.JCFOkzk1N6jY1JCSa73VGz9M0vnWivzypDlVZtf2CLm.qBylFTGf
I70HLwvC1xT6M+vrLQdGCLaIwx74ymsFXoBABrFkEnp+xtXcfQB4zEL+HygM
7qtDizRQUusyrTAdN8H6d2ZoUx+u7FcfLHakIJFpLRk4qcZmLVGCYBRhiklq
aglusGr.9hvOhFTcb0bEsx7BsrydZW2WrGJpoANA0kxfzub2xBZd5hYpodyr
TM5lSehtourPmE7gPtwuoM5Pk4ONTvY+F1jCqP1jiha39jamRtlFP.WSREz.
IqhnwTQ6rr+tW1kzvPRs5CZ.SZGS2b+yCDTd8ImNYUHMAHR.SkUz8ryVCsyv
a4k8pbUmnKsvqqPzsGK1XYzpExcx59qdC7Cs5rcU4g8jJoEbr1UIY3dlRT1K
FH4tIAvtQTs6hpDPdaF18+mkTqPV+04FOYUZPg9omM4JsYYBIbAks4BGmWTM
nzCaiLkwaJ13wzvkITlHWE7fYkV5hTEXZ6UznbQnb+YQD0NB13wcWUdmNn7X
zdz99ScpyolUGmmLswoCZi75iGzQqCZb1wo0D0oZVKXdqGoSW79NcgOY7D69
r53sKNt3Zx7XqMvNnMvmMZyAFTyQY3qs6yCp8HY1eOexl0d6ijk57E9KWJqS
kmOkJMQlQ8JcgUiGpZRY5lpYzLUVcag7tCxls6F7OfMmypN
-----------end_max5_patcher-----------
</code></pre>
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exaltron
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Re: Trying to create a VU meter that sends midi CC (audio>midi)

Post by exaltron » Fri Aug 31, 2012 4:38 am

trevox wrote:I would probably consider sending OSC data rather than midi as I've done it in the past for vu meters and it worked really well without breaking Live - doesn't seem to cause much bottleneck at all. You could try downsampling the audio signal (using the downsamp~ object) or a snapshot~ object could work too, but personally, I would go down the OSC route. If you're unfamiliar have a look at the "udpsend" and/or "udpreceive" help files. There are also some pretty useful externals for routing OSC at CNMAT. You can get them for free here:

http://cnmat.berkeley.edu/

Note that when using OSC, you can route the signal anywhere on your local network like other PC's, tablets, phones etc - can come in very handy. The examples in the help files use the local machines loopback IP address (127.0.0.1).
Thanks for that info. The device that I'm trying to control (maxuino) is actually using OSC to send control information to an arduino, so if I understood more about the way this device is designed I could probably create a simplified version that would read the levels and send them directly to the arduino. As it is I am hoping to just hack the maxuino device and add a receive object so I can inject that data.
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