Live 9 - changes to Max for Live

[buttergemuese]

Does anyone have some infos if there are changes to the LOM and Live API coming with Live 9?
Or can tell at least when we get some insights? The current crossgrade sale is interesting but too much money for not knowing if Max for Live is going to make full use of it...

[lalo]

i'm curious too...
cycling'74 team got recently an international company meetup...
i think they are working on some stuff related to Max4Live in Ableton 9

[3dot...]

i think they are working on some stuff related to Max4Live in Ableton 9

what makes you think that ?

[lalo]

i think they are working on some stuff related to Max4Live in Ableton 9

what makes you think that ?

the right sentence would be... " i hope that they are working..."

[kent_sandvik]

Kind of sad. MFL is an excellent feature but as long as Ableton has put it into the 'suite' set mainstream Ableton users won't use it so that will again not be widely used.

[stringtapper]

Kind of sad. MFL is an excellent feature but as long as Ableton has put it into the 'suite' set mainstream Ableton users won't use it so that will again not be widely used.

It's still going to be available as a standalone add-on as far as I can tell. Why in the world would they put something like M4L in the standard version of Live when they don't even put Operator in it??

I seem to recall you being a reasonable person over at the old Big Blue Lounge/Mac OSX Audio, but you're not making any sense now.

[kent_sandvik]

Kind of sad. MFL is an excellent feature but as long as Ableton has put it into the 'suite' set mainstream Ableton users won't use it so that will again not be widely used.

It's still going to be available as a standalone add-on as far as I can tell. Why in the world would they put something like M4L in the standard version of Live when they don't even put Operator in it??

I seem to recall you being a reasonable person over at the old Big Blue Lounge/Mac OSX Audio, but you're not making any sense now.

https://www.ableton.com/en/live/max-for-live/ states that MFL will be part of suite 9. I don't know if they will support this as integrated into Live 9 with the Live 8 AFL module. I doubt it due to 32-bit versus 64-bit runtimes unless the architecture is that Max always runs as a standalone process where the UI communicates via IAC. And even then I would be surprised if Ableton is keen to maintain the 8 module long term in a Live 9 UI environment.

Unlike Operator MFL is open-ended so it makes it possible to extend Live to all kinds of cool directions for end users. Which would make a default Live DAW pretty interesting. My point was that they again baked it into a suite with 20Gb of samples and FM synthesis modules and similar things that most producers have plentiful of already. Increase Live 9 basic price with the MFL license, I don't mind, the outcome would be great for most of us.

I guess I'm unreasonable. And since using Ableton Live since 2.1 its the first time I felt it was time to raise a voice due to all the weirdness that happened since Thursday.

[stringtapper]

Kind of sad. MFL is an excellent feature but as long as Ableton has put it into the 'suite' set mainstream Ableton users won't use it so that will again not be widely used.

It's still going to be available as a standalone add-on as far as I can tell. Why in the world would they put something like M4L in the standard version of Live when they don't even put Operator in it??

I seem to recall you being a reasonable person over at the old Big Blue Lounge/Mac OSX Audio, but you're not making any sense now.

https://www.ableton.com/en/live/max-for-live/ states that MFL will be part of suite 9. I don't know if they will support this as integrated into Live 9 with the Live 8 AFL module. I doubt it due to 32-bit versus 64-bit runtimes unless the architecture is that Max always runs as a standalone process where the UI communicates via IAC. And even then I would be surprised if Ableton is keen to maintain the 8 module long term in a Live 9 UI environment.

Unlike Operator MFL is open-ended so it makes it possible to extend Live to all kinds of cool directions for end users. Which would make a default Live DAW pretty interesting. My point was that they again baked it into a suite with 20Gb of samples and FM synthesis modules and similar things that most producers have plentiful of already. Increase Live 9 basic price with the MFL license, I don't mind, the outcome would be great for most of us.

I guess I'm unreasonable. And since using Ableton Live since 2.1 its the first time I felt it was time to raise a voice due to all the weirdness that happened since Thursday.

M4L being part of Suite 9 doesn't preclude it from still being available standalone. It's never worked that way with any of their other devices. What exactly would be the difference between them building it into Live Standard and raising the price versus just continuing to offer it as a standalone at its own price?

As to what you're saying about them "supporting the M4L module" or whatever, I think you don't understand how M4L works. Max For Live is really just a piece of code inside of Live that lets Max patches run inside of it. If it works now inside Live 8 then it's always going to work. The part that Cycling '74 works on and upgrades is Max, which in the context of M4L is the "editor". It has no functional tie to the M4L pieces of code inside Live beyond the fact that the M4L code launches Max whenever you click the Edit button on a M4L device.

It's not going to magically stop working. Once Max 6 is 64-bit then M4L will be fully functional with the 64-bit version of Live 8 (once its out of beta of course).

[kent_sandvik]

As to what you're saying about them "supporting the M4L module" or whatever, I think you don't understand how M4L works. Max For Live is really just a piece of code inside of Live that lets Max patches run inside of it. If it works now inside Live 8 then it's always going to work. The part that Cycling '74 works on and upgrades is Max, which in the context of M4L is the "editor". It has no functional tie to the M4L pieces of code inside Live beyond the fact that the M4L code launches Max whenever you click the Edit button on a M4L device.

It's not going to magically stop working. Once Max 6 is 64-bit then M4L will be fully functional with the 64-bit version of Live 8 (once its out of beta of course).

OK, so if I'm getting MFL for Live 8 just now it will work with Live 9 later without the need to get the suite upgrade that I absolutely are not interested in? Same later with post 9 versions? Then this is interesting. AFAIK Ableton said they would roll in AFL into suite and then discontinue AFL as a separate module but maybe this is not the case and I'm even more confused about Ableton 9 offerings now.

[broc]

As I understand it, M4L will run only in Live 9 suite. Currently I don't see an upgrade path from standard Live 8 + M4L to standard Live 9 + M4L. It's probably not for technical reasons but just a matter of business.

[stringtapper]

As I understand it, M4L will run only in Live 9 suite. Currently I don't see an upgrade path from standard Live 8 + M4L to standard Live 9 + M4L. It's probably not for technical reasons but just a matter of business.

Well David has already confirmed that if one goes from Live 8 Suite to Live 9 Standard that they will keep their licenses for all content in Suite 8 and they will work with Live 9 Standard. So it stands to reason that If someone already owns a M4L license that the same policy would apply.

[3dot...]

. So it stands to reason that If someone already owns a M4L license that the same policy would apply.

thing is ...
the new m4l will probably use Max6..
they might be asking for and upgrade price for m4l..as it is continued to be sold independently...

[kent_sandvik]

. So it stands to reason that If someone already owns a M4L license that the same policy would apply.

thing is ...
the new m4l will probably use Max6..
they might be asking for and upgrade price for m4l..as it is continued to be sold independently...

I hope that they sell M4L separately at Live 7 time frame, the web site and shop site is not that clear about this at all. Pretty confusing.

[stringtapper]

. So it stands to reason that If someone already owns a M4L license that the same policy would apply.

thing is ...
the new m4l will probably use Max6..
they might be asking for and upgrade price for m4l..as it is continued to be sold independently...

Well Max 6 can be used with M4L right now. I've already made some devices using Max 6 and even a couple that have Gen components.

[3dot...]

yeah.. I've tried to run Max6 too (as m4l)...
everything seemed to take twice as long..
it performed worse than Max5 and some stuff downright didn't load properly..
since it's unsupported.. I went back to 5..

about the upgrade price..it's just a presumption...we'll have to wait and see...