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 Post subject: Guide to control surface API?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:28 pm 

Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2004 9:43 pm
Posts: 582
Location: Minneapolis
Just glancing over the M4L documentation in Live 9, it looks like the control surface part of the LOM is still woefully undocumented.

Are there any useful guides out there on how to use control surfaces in M4L, or M4L patches that do it particularly well?

I really think Ableton/Cycling 74 should release abstractions for using Push, Launchpad, etc. much like their very helpful abstractions for everything else in M4L..


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 Post subject: Re: Guide to control surface API?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 11:42 am 

Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2007 4:08 pm
Posts: 3064
Location: Dunstable
Which controller are you wanting more detail on?

Cheers
D

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 Post subject: Re: Guide to control surface API?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 8:56 pm 

Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2004 9:43 pm
Posts: 582
Location: Minneapolis
Mostly the Push. I'd even settle for a MIDI programming reference a la the Launchpad one here, but figuring out how to use the API would really be ideal.

But also any information on how the Control Surface API works in general would be hugely appreciated - it's just tough to break into it without any idea how it works or what I'm doing.


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 Post subject: Re: Guide to control surface API?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 7:19 am 

Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2007 8:21 am
Posts: 3121
Location: Shreveport LA, sometimes Dallas/Ft Worth TX
When working on an control surface patch I use this handy piece of patching I got form S4racen.
I put it in the patch I am working on and select the control surface.
From there I use the other 2 menus for "controls" and "components"
This out puts the paths messages to access these controls and components id's through the live.path.

Code:
----------begin_max5_patcher----------
3198.3oc4cs0iihiE94Zjl+CV4ockpNBar4xpQizNySqzr69Pq8oVqJQBtR4
YH.Bbpp6Yz9ee7MR.JHwIARbu8KUJLF33Oe747cN1F9iu+6dXwphOSqW.9af
OAd3g+PTxCpxjk7PSAOrXaxmWmkTqp3h0Ea2Ry4KdzbRN8ybyIx4UEYf5cUO
mrltuBOKJOOYKUUo+dEKIC7SEYo6OeYEsVbCS3rh7mpnq4Z4IHxeo2i.DAI+
wy7Gv+s4xx2ssXGOixUhkWSwrT0yoX0u9AT3hVUlk2TW3dIqZyJ0Eub+kWlv
W+BKeyPBBQ9SjRbfQsEEYKrl86pVHTbyTE++99uS9q3mGmLrs9ZA0nXk36Ci
uXP0eR.0FAAAumf51xhbworGVs.efSoR2s.e1RqqS1PeO9HDqW.FMumLipqA
dMEUCB1eMYrb55hc4pKDMNZNBPBG.HgQ6qrtl7uTR0fyhEczXO.xniowEFHA
QrmRqGFZv2QgTzU.oqTOeZ09VvqIU6Ah+I9WVlTxV9QZlP39YMXNBvfFBXBO
Bv7XWv4nOykBYVHnmPecPnTO3E2FJwARn7VpE1L5Un9OqJhASqhXfF8vd5A0
ADWQQzfmmipX70qJZdpWrxXPfxWlue7zoLtZGmWjeN5HjwAhUI4aFSOwhFFR
2vPdM+8ZZWmscoO1iLWWnve.nH5DpDcUKnaWQS6fDVIOWq1BRqlzL3qCGnFL
RiiM.oXPIKi9JspVvnp8S4gEIkksJ+g1WjD++0B08J3wCkwx0kAOTVE8UVys
v6PwIUhV.WH96pznxmCvKLmU102HCGZggdlQ.gi0BEpIaVWjoEgOATLLN7m9
0LqX8uo6h1KVKJJo4r71bL6hHozmS1kwepOGkAqfR+pysu8YOBarGVrohkVj
Kklt2.Y4MOWg6JEEpNMKUExSJG5hqEsnc0qRpjcHqxnsM9I7KUTj08bGZ1hQ
eI4rsIbJmokZj2g6KaaYES6X5Pgz7Dws4k50Bc6rt2M8odcnSkJTVVSeikxe
oKUR4oDW.qroOYwAvJksgVy6UHOYScuh5DSXGk411W5dhd1YxouILEr+V10e
dEU.4of5urc0AdO1v99H1h6aDxOnyEcD+1ia9XLSHDnxwcXfVuJ5cTyGmd9C
Gra2L.dVvXNXEn9JgVzHPKI73Pqxc2iWGDiiUb0CwXMOykj6BD2iS5DqiR7u
bcTjk.nl0.VSMJvozQEF4oUYEuMWnKb9r.XPWSnjDzcxBvPpm6gWuYBWwAym
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4rK79CfdYmGHwUf.G5T+AydxIxfxQxKZ+dgvE1Yx88oHcTrWmF4f.UWPjJVG
T7MG60s8NstxpBdgTCqS7rJjC5cAXGAs3h8W4qopZPI3HLVaTfjOQSz1.S31
f+kTa4eKzVtEFEFLoDIuR+HWD+zlgUvOQ8lPdE3IhWQqHv8VRvDu3HYv2QM+
CIFAIgpfx6dKGOjjlNXcF.brXRpoY.uYJlDbz0GSxoLy238TC09tHDWIZ3T.
KctP4SD42DgvHcH03P2zQ5tZJf+h.lySoeV7W0A6DWwN.u.rglSqjbYR.pIt
PTj770pbXRSema32dgs9E.qFjSoohyKpu.WK2wALdc+txNtmCmb2yX+I2+LR
OWGAQpHkhTLjhBcA+yVBI3K2qKxWmmHHxVutrTEirapMiL1qzkRU0qzng+HH
HBYgQiGuT+lwQXeHV42DFG3obb5o8fZieSDLnk5oaRc+Ce3GWL8C0gS9PcXf
BDCvJEcD5aFrze5CqAqIxYx+oahkR2ZUzZdQkHNxmUd4VWTIaC.kyPs+wWRp
k9zdKgwABGWrLUE0UnF7LKKS4Tbao.wnYeA7FS3zLIKCnmhCUXp0i6DjL88l
3oOHUyHCcVCgHrdbha0c9lfjhH1otrUz8Sb5Vc+RwtJfzegnB2z7F3Sl9QXZ
RlAZezPMc96PlCtWyhie77OKNMQkpgZSZGcrzj+BMqDb4bf5LQ5mGcDKmHyY
LwkZCQFJ5gXGbNhJW2c0wM0yR74MCbuvRSo4u6FddAEnwbsq.hmKNyQGFRHv
Hof6bCJHy3bkXBEPmJhH+u8FTPBt4CJLXd38cPwQoGcQY8oexdRjK6E4ZeQP
F9nS8xLPqc5C3Kpc7dwNIoVAOUUGQSmBMY8KC1qjT+afmKpTIcSpqKq7JJHk
UWlk7EAS3N83qn8W2Bc58Bl7dOT7L06g0+nmEsPx2BQq6M8Y9P6rvfktYz5M
J37Btv0fnUuhVICau2fgZv5chX3y4hPwSVyEj.FWMGO8p4SelTL7sz+nUyIn
uATyQQSNTp4rhPtWNoFXt1+kklkw8Gp2scaR0WFF6+ocrLg0echNDCGjYdJ4
0DVlbo29tAGKA1v4B7ODCwXqujrxN8l4MQZX5zLKUsimlC38rWqdWydT3Cbl
.vFtaSuk..8VkBWZmi711IhEeYHJ9pPVvmLHkQGARlgTr2DNhLr8PyZi8H8k
xtcGXDHuXrwe+bEUPatVLBLiUyGbDXEus6IIYMYViqkbnY4BZZI4fcqT7xVB
9OJV5rZf5QKNeMKURJuQmBninUxtyPsae5nWJWdKk6j7+jz7Saxo8nyb6eQS
Qjkqlr1bwSYvMrh4Q9WWNtiT+Sn2dw1SHdyjJnlyOQu++v3at4jKd9bQ9W97
4Bivm474pB63lOitMavhA23jyTRC5sj1lzUasA2MAZBIgN3JuoAySJk+LWoq
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GVn6lV87Xh.gmuLi2n.q2LA3.GL03WyrVXI.CmH.dJWFSM8LnnywzR6yIm5+
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HoxkPuraLxK5.aA3xjJQM3zpmzap+2Eh5XuttLu4BD3.lLLbXmQL3IV59x2K
ACaGSt5uz3xOP2Vx+xOd0APGnygfud0f6nAxcSCddFeYEz3fvrN2taAOeW1q
xvYbchX1kJFmDN4dpUkfQ5055EOF3hs2jxi5COBbSrTOV+CDF5jgOyDAPuZl
3gB8sBuahit6acpK1vguu1JcnKluhc+Nat.ajcYqn42SncaK0mFFm2IrVIvW
hcVnEn0QfmSt.50Tvg1m4c4STNKOpYUp+z3t3tvQeWNelHlGeS3kab3EPbQF
DanbEBeqnrEMioYyu85rvbzcfYQ22AhmA1DbcFCf1851.4402XvMVkqPXeYW
4bsJbmclqFELy1r1wdK6nB+RlYum5uUilv2ILy9qDFCDGBc0TkOioME5vYMs
wDqdWVFecYMs0aUR4p5Xr2bhJwPVgQ53pK1UstAcZdO6AfcEoTZMmkuOOTe5
vK6Pf2XKK+NjqRY0x7Ok1Mm8mTe6rE9gDogEdYlorT32xRKKX4bCDSPPYP2g
59u.8K4ttGE3ostE6Kqo5ndxzMBOfV2YJeO+3Xclx2tJ10YFco8kv.Ueouu1
ctu4crR6iL6UeYhPIlitO8kJ3vt9xKFNBUMReSReQl4yt8QMrxiCUvgWz8BN
rdjN14Trg11QhCcuAkgVi6QtGv6YqvibOygJQxN0F7WyHuu6wp.Yqv6eTgGd
ODdBwVgmD3bBOzZq7HO2SmGaMYT2iIs0ZMPmSzi95Uzwe8J5P60XjsRjaI7n
yR3cO5jHaj8XmSzisF1cPxj1amw8nznDIqHSBItovaGxibSg2pgqP2a7JLdF
xu1MK.Jq8thbO2qH6Cfx8HSpDIn0HOz8Dd6Pd2iavPZxiH7tmracT2tWFC9J
1LIz5L7AcvXtsVeGibNKMXq03cOS73fyB3cLgm7UrvaOvGboyKjOQMQlH8WE
Zr4KCZmif5EzgolpitSS4o0oIm.uT7.4GnlmL8j9R7H6O59zlI1a06hmaPSq
Di70SzsZRA6dDDC06jFiNv8COBuAKC.MdDFG2YY.D6hKC.h07QHtGeDh0gs4
6dAL6GOC7QFYAo.8a8w3o6QPyGq5Hhd+hDeuzDU3gcVm8cN9Y1alk36lz5sC
4m1vXaVfrMkd3CHt9Qzc4qY9fh2u407YE+DS1icV4Gn0LPKYvOz4SrbEeykq
9OxiLgjvaqfEZkfEc6ELhMBVzU0SZFIz6K5tRj5+kbu+Ww8A9BtO5Wuc0CT7
m+DPAb6BO
-----------end_max5_patcher-----------


Once I have the control number, or component number, I use the LiveAPI Explorer to see what calls are available.
http://www.maxforlive.com/library/devic ... i-explorer

in the LiveAPI Explorer I choose
control_surfaces
components or controls
then the number I want to know about.
At the bottom right you will see what kind of calls to send etc.

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 Post subject: Re: Guide to control surface API?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 5:08 pm 

Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2004 9:43 pm
Posts: 582
Location: Minneapolis
Thank you!! That's very helpful.


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 Post subject: Re: Guide to control surface API?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 12:52 am 

Joined: Mon May 31, 2010 12:36 pm
Posts: 656
When max for live was launched some years ago, this guy (Mike Chenetz) did a great job at understanding then explaining how the LOM works with control surfaces:
http://vimeo.com/max4live/videos/page:2/sort:date

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 Post subject: Re: Guide to control surface API?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 7:19 am 

Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2007 4:08 pm
Posts: 3064
Location: Dunstable
Thats where i started!

Cheers
D

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 Post subject: Re: Guide to control surface API?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:26 am 

Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:47 am
Posts: 516
*reminder

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 Post subject: Re: Guide to control surface API?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 10:27 am 

Joined: Mon May 31, 2010 12:36 pm
Posts: 656
Quote:
Thats where i started!

Cheers
D


:wink: Same for me. Huge source of information and always so cleverly explained.
(but, is Mike dead or something? -sorry- but everything seems down around his activity on the net)

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 Post subject: Re: Guide to control surface API?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 10:44 am 

Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2007 4:08 pm
Posts: 3064
Location: Dunstable
Yeah the website has gone, i know he basically made Mu? for the Lemur so maybe he's tied up with them now??

Thankfully i'd learnt the text from the wiki for disabling elements of the APC, i'd be lost without it!
Cheers
D

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 Post subject: Re: Guide to control surface API?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 6:21 pm 

Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2007 8:21 am
Posts: 3121
Location: Shreveport LA, sometimes Dallas/Ft Worth TX
geez, the dark days of learning M4L.
Mike's tuts were great, I was sad when he stopped, there was a black hole for a but.
These days there's LOTs of info floating around, lucky bastards.

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 Post subject: Re: Guide to control surface API?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:40 pm 

Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 6:40 pm
Posts: 14473
Location: Belgium
Valiumdupeuple wrote:
Quote:
Thats where i started!

Cheers
D


:wink: Same for me. Huge source of information and always so cleverly explained.
(but, is Mike dead or something? -sorry- but everything seems down around his activity on the net)


Still alive and tweeting https://twitter.com/mchenetz


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 Post subject: Re: Guide to control surface API?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 2:57 am 

Joined: Mon May 31, 2010 12:36 pm
Posts: 656
^ Good to know!

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 Post subject: Re: Guide to control surface API?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 3:37 pm 

Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2004 9:43 pm
Posts: 582
Location: Minneapolis
Thanks again all, these are great.


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