multi point envelope draw (idea)

dna598 · Post by **dna598** » Tue Jan 07, 2014 6:22 pm

I like operator for its ease of use, but i hate fm8 for the same reason. But the envelopes on fm8 rule!

It would be cool to be able to draw envelopes just like in FM8 and apply them to the operators. (or anything).
I guess it would work just like any other lfo/env plug, but would contain rows of assignable multi point envelopes (with bezier curves). Triggered by key press.

Getting the functionality of drawing envelopes into operator would be sick.

M4l is well out of my skill set, so i won't be building anything.

Anyone done this before, or is it not possible?

chapelier fou · Post by **chapelier fou** » Tue Jan 07, 2014 6:29 pm

Good idea, and i think it should be doable. (Except for the bézier curves ?)

S-N-S · Post by **S-N-S** » Tue Jan 07, 2014 7:13 pm

would indeed be awesome

stringtapper · Post by **stringtapper** » Tue Jan 07, 2014 7:34 pm

chapelier fou wrote:Good idea, and i think it should be doable. (Except for the bézier curves ?)

The [function] object has a curve mode as of Max 6 although not strictly bézier curves.

Valiumdupeuple · Post by **Valiumdupeuple** » Thu Jan 09, 2014 11:09 pm

Of course it's doable, and you'll even find some devices on maxforlive.com.
The problem is that there's no way to have polyphonic envelopes. I'm not sure that's the right way to name it, but I guess you see what I mean (otherwise tell me, I'll try to detail with the few english words I know

)
And what's Ableton is really messing, a native synth with multi-stages envelopes...

dna598 · Post by **dna598** » Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:22 pm

I found to my surprise the bundled max 4 live envelope does trigger from midi note!

The caveat is that the envelope is a simple adsr affair.

If it had the envelope from the m4l device called The Little Enveloper that would pretty much be it!!

See the pic:

So, how hard is this to implement?

Any experienced m4l practitioners care to find out? (Little enveloper is a free dl

)

It would be SO appreciated.

dataf1ow · Post by **dataf1ow** » Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:44 pm

dna598 wrote:I found to my surprise the bundled max 4 live envelope does trigger from midi note!

The caveat is that the envelope is a simple adsr affair.

If it had the envelope from the m4l device called The Little Enveloper that would pretty much be it!!

See the pic:

So, how hard is this to implement?

Any experienced m4l practitioners care to find out? (Little enveloper is a free dl )

It would be SO appreciated.

It wouldn't be hard (hard is different than time consuming

) at all to trigger a more complex envelope (from the little enveloper) with a midi note. I actually wanted to build something like this for awhile. Would be cool to have something that trigger effects parameter envelope patterns/one shots with a button from a midi controller.....

clydesdale · Post by **clydesdale** » Sat Mar 08, 2014 12:37 am

I know bezier curves for the most part and have a VB6 program that has the equations for generating the curve path-- at least for single segment fourth order curves. It's basically generates an x and y coordinate based on 2 anchors and two handles. I suspect it's overkill for an envelope-- Live looks like it uses linear and logarithmic (my guess) which when done piecewise would probably be fine. The example shown in The Little Enveloper is done that way.

This envelope idea looks really interesting.

S4racen · Post by **S4racen** » Sat Mar 08, 2014 12:35 pm

My Smart LE device offers you the ability to draw curves into a Smart Graph which can then be used as i think you need....

www.isotonikstudios.com and the Modular Series page...

Cheers
D

dna598 · Post by **dna598** » Sat Mar 08, 2014 9:00 pm

@clydesdale- sorry I have no idea what you're talking about but you sound clever and I am pleased you like the idea. Now the pending question is can you combine the two and make the thing?

edit - btw the little enveloper is a audio amplitude envelope that starts on playback, whereas the type it needs to be is midi trigger-able data/parameter. Is it as simple as "telling it" to act on different data?

@S4racen-thanks man but I can't quite make out a few things about your device. Does it trigger from midi?

clydesdale · Post by **clydesdale** » Sat Mar 08, 2014 9:46 pm

The piecewise graph in the Little Enveloper is the way to go. It uses the function and multislider objects which work really well from what I can see. You are on the right track in in thinking to use the Envelope and Lil'Env together to make this work. Drop this hybrid into an Effect Rack would give you the midi control you're looking for along with multiple curve selections.

I'll look at each of the devices to see if I understand enough to try to combine them. Envelope uses the function object as well so it might just be a matter of substituting the graph from Lil'Env into Envelope and tidying a few things up.

dna598 · Post by **dna598** » Sat Mar 08, 2014 10:48 pm

clydesdale wrote: Envelope uses the function object as well so it might just be a matter of substituting the graph from Lil'Env into Envelope and tidying a few things up.

That sounds great Clydesdale, I was hoping that was the way to go. You da man. Good luck!

dataf1ow · Post by **dataf1ow** » Sun Mar 09, 2014 1:39 am

Here's a pack with the little enveloper that can map to parameters. Be triggered from a midi mappable trigger button, or be triggered by incoming midi notes.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/207 ... eloper.alp

There's still some expansion to be done that would be useful. Filtering which midi notes trigger, so a chord could trigger 5 different envelopes for instance (woah!), do some velocity scaling with incoming notes. Make a version that works with incoming audio to trigger the envelope etc.

LEt me know if you want me to look into dong those things, or cleaning this up a bit. I kind of threw it together without much thought to keeping it organized.

dna598 · Post by **dna598** » Sun Mar 09, 2014 2:10 am

straitfire wrote:Here's a pack with the little enveloper that can map to parameters. Be triggered from a midi mappable trigger button, or be triggered by incoming midi notes.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/207 ... eloper.alp

There's still some expansion to be done that would be useful. Filtering which midi notes trigger, so a chord could trigger 5 different envelopes for instance (woah!), do some velocity scaling with incoming notes. Make a version that works with incoming audio to trigger the envelope etc.

LEt me know if you want me to look into dong those things, or cleaning this up a bit. I kind of threw it together without much thought to keeping it organized.

This didnt work. missing amxd. why the song file?

dataf1ow · Post by **dataf1ow** » Sun Mar 09, 2014 2:39 am

dna598 wrote:
This didnt work. missing amxd. why the song file?

Damnit I forgot to collect it into the project.
I just have it set up on a track so you don't have to do anything to see how it works.

New Pack
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/207 ... eloper.alp

Or if you prefer, just the .amxd

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/207 ... rMidi.amxd

multi point envelope draw (idea)

multi point envelope draw (idea)

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