M4L Stability

Questions and discussion about building and using Max for Live devices
Eanna
Posts: 21
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2011 9:04 pm
Location: Ireland

Re: M4L Stability

Post by Eanna » Wed Jun 03, 2015 12:16 pm

Hi, thanks Rory.

From what I understand, the Max7 Runtime emits better crashdump detail, in the event of crashes. But in my case with the glitching, I am not crashing. So in this instance, yes I'll generate a Status Report and get it to your Support address.

For me, it doesn't appear to matter what Buffer Size or Sample Rate the ASIO driver is set to here... And while the issue is worse with the Focusrite driver, it does occur with the Scope ASIO drivers too (which I trust to be stable, as they are very mature now, and I've been using them without issue for years on XP and 7).

I don't know what part of my system is under stress when both Time and Timbre, and Convolution Reverb Pro, are running. Could it be Memory? The Live set memory footprint does get large enough - about 1.5 Gig (T&T uses more memory than one might expect). Could it be swapping large chunks of memory to disk? The number of Swaps is reasonably small...
I could (and probably should) dig out Resource Monitoring for my box... Try disabling USB ports... the Ethernet card... Check for DPC Latencies... the usual stuff! And, try the 9.2 beta I guess... Make sure there's no extraneous stuff like Virus scanners getting in the way...

Note that it's only when both T&T and Convo Rev Pro are loaded that the issue appears. Either one, there are no issues. I didn't try loading these devices in separate tracks last night, so maybe it only occurs when both devices are on the same track....

What might cause Live to spike CPU when heavier M4L devices are in use??
Have you come across these symptoms before? Was there an identified cause, and a resolution?
Anyone else experience anything like this?

Happy to move to PM'ing, to keep the thread on-point (M4L Crashes rather than Glitching). Let me know...

I'm Win7 32-bit btw.

Daniel Morgenroth
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2015 1:29 pm

Re: M4L Stability

Post by Daniel Morgenroth » Wed Jun 03, 2015 4:23 pm

[rry] wrote:Hi all,

We have some news on this front regarding the recent Windows crashes. Cycling 74 have supplied us with some potential fixes.
To test the fixes, the attached maxurl objects should replace the maxurl objects in the respective Max 7 folders.
Worked for me.

I opened a set that contains 12 instances of M4L and was crashing before with Max 7.0.3.
Took about three minutes to load but no crash this time, did it twice (quit Live in between, of course).

Then I tried a different set, again really long loading times but no crash.

I can also drag Convolution Reverb (without workaround) into a new set without a crash. But it takes some time and feels a little shaky (screen turns white for a second).

P.S.: Max Editor says:
"You are using a newer version of 'maxurl' (7.0.4) than was shipped with Max 7.0.3.
Please verify your installation and your search paths."

f.poce@tiscali.nl
Posts: 103
Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2010 4:14 pm

Re: M4L Stability

Post by f.poce@tiscali.nl » Wed Jun 03, 2015 9:22 pm

So far 7.0.3 + maxurl patch (as shared by Rory) seems to be stable on my Win 7 64bits machine.
With both Live 9.1.x and the latest Live 9.2 beta.
It looks promising.

By the way, maxurl was introduced with Max 6.1.7 in april 2014.
https://cycling74.com/forums/topic/max-6-1-7-released/
For what I can remember this is about the period the random crash started.

Gr / Fab

Daniel Morgenroth
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2015 1:29 pm

Re: M4L Stability

Post by Daniel Morgenroth » Thu Jun 04, 2015 3:26 pm

I ran into a strange issue today with the new maxurl.

Worked on a track that contained no M4L at all.

I used the CodeFN42-Midi-Plugin "Chordz" (it's like the Ableton "Chord"-Device, only better) to trigger Chords with one finger. It was routed to a Grand Piano (Ableton Pack) on a different track.

Suddenly the Chord "C Dominant7" didn't work anymore (all other chords working). Sounded really strange.
When I recorded the chord on the Piano Track, it looked alright, looked like a C Dominant7-Chord.

But still it triggered some notes on the piano that were simply not in the Midi-Data.
Never experienced something like this with Live before.

I tried the obvious, deleted and reloaded "Chordz", typed in the chord manually several times, tried different Grand Piano Presets, restarted Live, always with the same result.
That one chord still got "randomized" everytime it got triggered, no matter if it was via "Chordz" or via a Midi-Clip.

Then I thought: "The only thing I've changed between today and the last time I was working on that track is the switch to Max7 with the new maxurl."

So I switched back to Max 6.1.10 and everything worked again.

Now I'm happy again but I don't understand anything anymore.
M4L had absolutely nothing to do with generating/playing the chords.

Maybe it's because Max7 is not the officially supported Version for Live 9.1.x, so if Live is starting to behave strangely for you, maybe it's a good idea to go back to Max 6.1.10 after testing Max7.

cpnet
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Jun 25, 2013 4:54 am

Re: M4L Stability

Post by cpnet » Mon Jun 22, 2015 5:50 am

[rry] wrote:Hi all,

We have some news on this front regarding the recent Windows crashes. Cycling 74 have supplied us with some potential fixes.
To test the fixes, the attached maxurl objects should replace the maxurl objects in the respective Max 7 folders. (Free free to rename the older versions in order to keep them as a back up.)

x86:
C:\Program Files (x86)\Cycling '74\Max 7\resources\extensions\max
replaced with:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/odvtv92ge71pe ... 6.zip?dl=0

or

x64:
C:\Program Files\Cycling '74\Max 7\resources\extensions\max
replaced with:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/kgd01pxpkt6x8 ... 4.zip?dl=0

After replacing these, please try launch one of the problematic sets without any crash-avoiding workarounds, to see if the crashes continue!
Look forward to hearing back with any info. :wink:

Best,
Rory
I was directed here with an update to the "J74 Progressive" M4L plugins I have. I was really hopeful when I saw this thread, but it doesn't seem to be helping me. My sets still crash when they get to the stage of loading M4L devices/effects.

- Ableton 9.1.8 Suite (x64)
- Max 7.0.3 (x64)
- ASIO4ALL and Komplete Audio 6 drivers both seem to have the issue
- Windows 7 Ultimate x64
- 32 GB RAM
- Intel i7-3820QM

I know I put the file in the right folder, because it already had "maxurl.mxe64" (which I renamed).

[rry]
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 5:09 pm
Location: Ableton HQ

Re: M4L Stability

Post by [rry] » Tue Jun 23, 2015 2:21 pm

Hi there,

can you send your Crash Reports to support@ableton.com, and we'll run some analyses.
If you can make sure the reports contain instances where Max 7 was in use, that would be great, as Max 7 contains more accurate crash reporting.

Thanks,
rry

cpnet
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Jun 25, 2013 4:54 am

Re: M4L Stability

Post by cpnet » Wed Jun 24, 2015 12:11 am

[rry] wrote:Hi there,

can you send your Crash Reports to support@ableton.com, and we'll run some analyses.
If you can make sure the reports contain instances where Max 7 was in use, that would be great, as Max 7 contains more accurate crash reporting.

Thanks,
rry
Done!

lxegs
Posts: 20
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2011 3:59 pm

Re: M4L Stability

Post by lxegs » Wed Jun 24, 2015 10:08 pm

I have experienced some crashes with max 7 that i haven't with max 6

with mainly oscillot but with some other minor devices, i can have the symptoms below :

during moving external max4live windows, my whole computer can crash (BSOD)
during adding some modules to oscillot, the editor is blocked, i can't do anything in it, neither closing it. the ableton session is not crashed, just the editor; so the solution is to kill with task manager

all those problems are not present with max 6.1 --> i m running windows 8.1 x64, max 7.0.3 patched, sound card buffer @ 2048 samples (asio/mmx drivers, tested with generic behringer card or motu track 16 soundcard)

roman
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:47 am
Location: Germany

Re: M4L Stability

Post by roman » Mon Jun 29, 2015 2:23 pm

Same problem here with Oscillot. Win 7 x64 - Suite 9.2 (x64)- M4L 7.0.4

When will Oscillot work with M4L 7? It was said it will work with Live 9.2...
I don't want to change the M4L version every time I use Oscillot. Come on. :|

tone61
Posts: 376
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2007 5:09 am

Re: M4L Stability

Post by tone61 » Sun Jul 12, 2015 1:36 pm

Daniel Morgenroth wrote:
[rry] wrote:Hi all,

We have some news on this front regarding the recent Windows crashes. Cycling 74 have supplied us with some potential fixes.
To test the fixes, the attached maxurl objects should replace the maxurl objects in the respective Max 7 folders.
Worked for me.

I opened a set that contains 12 instances of M4L and was crashing before with Max 7.0.3.
Took about three minutes to load but no crash this time, did it twice (quit Live in between, of course).

Then I tried a different set, again really long loading times but no crash.

I can also drag Convolution Reverb (without workaround) into a new set without a crash. But it takes some time and feels a little shaky (screen turns white for a second).

P.S.: Max Editor says:
"You are using a newer version of 'maxurl' (7.0.4) than was shipped with Max 7.0.3.
Please verify your installation and your search paths."
After reading this I decided to upgrade from latest Max4Live 6 to 7.0.4.
A live set which includes a M4L Midi LFO device used to crash when loading the live set.
After switching to 7.0.4 the liveset loads succesfully, so maybe this "open live set" bug has been finally fixed.
Looks good so far.

I use Windows7 OS.

sendmacro
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2015 1:48 am

Re: M4L Stability

Post by sendmacro » Mon Jul 13, 2015 2:03 am

lxegs wrote:I have experienced some crashes with max 7 that i haven't with max 6

with mainly oscillot but with some other minor devices, i can have the symptoms below :

during moving external max4live windows, my whole computer can crash (BSOD)
during adding some modules to oscillot, the editor is blocked, i can't do anything in it, neither closing it. the ableton session is not crashed, just the editor; so the solution is to kill with task manager

all those problems are not present with max 6.1 --> i m running windows 8.1 x64, max 7.0.3 patched, sound card buffer @ 2048 samples (asio/mmx drivers, tested with generic behringer card or motu track 16 soundcard)
I have the same problem with oscillot running max 7.0.4, ableton 9.2 and oscillot 1.0.4. Oscillot has crashed in various ways
with previous versions of max and I've been unable to use it. I would advise anyone thinking of buying oscillot to wait until ableton has sorted these problems out.

Daniel Morgenroth
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2015 1:29 pm

Re: M4L Stability

Post by Daniel Morgenroth » Wed Jul 22, 2015 8:44 am

Hi all!

Happy to report that I've been working with 9.2 and Max 7.0.4 for almost a month now without a crash.

Reminder: When I joined this thread I was in a real bad mood, some of my Live-Sets had just disappeared into crash-loops (couldn't even open them anymore) because of M4l. Several crashes every day (Win7, 64-bit).

Now I don't use the workaround anymore, have some M4L in most of my tracks and no problems.

I can't speak for Oscillot, I mainly use the stock-stuff (LFO,Convolution Reverb Pro, Buffer Shuffler 2), Devices by J74(Progressive, Bassline, Morph Tools) and some free stuff (OmniPush, PushPong, MultiMidiPreset). Group Humanizer also works now, under Max 6.1.x I had no luck with it.

I know one should never say never in the software-world, but thanks to everybody that helped to fix this (for now).

DukeOfPrunes
Posts: 44
Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2015 11:15 am

Re: M4L Stability

Post by DukeOfPrunes » Wed Jul 22, 2015 12:46 pm

Greetings everyone, this is my first post!

I have been a Live 9 user for ~2 years (on and off). I really enjoy what it offers. I came from Cubase...

I recently purchased Fab's Progressive and Baseline M4L plugins and I also was experiencing these annoying crashes...

My platform is Win 8.1. I was running Live 9.2 Suite, but M4L 6.1...something.

Fab was very helpful and suggested I should run 9.2 and M4L 7.0.4.

This seems to have resolved all my issues, as of now. I haven't yet logged in serious time on the machine, but I have not experienced one crash yet, when initially I would have been certain to get the blue screen of death.

Many thanks to Fab!

All the best,
Jean.

Angstrom
Posts: 14686
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 2:22 pm
Contact:

Re: M4L Stability

Post by Angstrom » Thu Jul 23, 2015 12:00 pm

Just an update on my old "crash on start" bug which plagued every opening of Ableton Live if it had Max6 devices in the default set(LFO, Convolution reverb)

So far I have not had this problem at all with Max 7 and Live 9.2

It takes longer to start up, but at least I don't have to be so intimately involved in cajoling it to start up now.
So this is an improvement

maky355
Posts: 206
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2011 6:10 am

Re: M4L Stability

Post by maky355 » Mon Jul 27, 2015 1:54 pm

I upgraded to latest "everything" including fix shared here in thread. So far my crashes definitely decreased like 80% of the time. I noticed same crashes but only after i load 7 or 8 heavy projects in sequence one after another then on 7 it crashes on loading project. Nothing major.

Seem they nailed culprit somehow...

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