OSCiLLOT

Questions and discussion about building and using Max for Live devices
Stromkraft
Posts: 7033
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am

Re: OSCiLLOT

Post by Stromkraft » Fri Dec 23, 2016 10:12 am

So is the quality of sound you make with your patches reminiscent of the sound you can hear in the demo videos and Soundcloud examples? I immediately recognise a digital quality that I don't like from all other Max For Live synths that I've tried or heard. That seems inevitable with MFL synths.

What do you think?

How does OSCiLLOT stand up when compared to modular solutions in Reaktor, Softube Modular, Aalto or others?
Make some music!

ivarin
Posts: 114
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2014 3:45 pm
Contact:

Re: OSCiLLOT

Post by ivarin » Fri Dec 23, 2016 1:05 pm

Stomkraft,

totally agree with you, Max patches (including M4L devices of course) have quite recognizable digital flavour. don't know what soundcloud demos you mean tho.
as i read once on some forum, 'Max requires much more low-lever work to achieve richer sound comparing to Reaktor'

in spite of that, Magnetic remains my favourite delay, i can't believe it's made in Max. and sometimes i may use an M4L synth or effect to get this 'digitaly quality' sound in purpose.

speaking about sound quality in general, i've never heard anything like NI's stuff, mostly Reaktor. this is top notch computer sound to me.

Stromkraft
Posts: 7033
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am

Re: OSCiLLOT

Post by Stromkraft » Fri Dec 23, 2016 1:10 pm

ivarin wrote:Stomkraft,

totally agree with you, Max patches (including M4L devices of course) have quite recognizable digital flavour. don't know what soundcloud demos you mean tho.
I meant the official OSCiLLOT videos and official Soundcloud examples.
ivarin wrote: in spite of that, Magnetic remains my favourite delay, i can't believe it's made in Max.
One my favourites as well and it sounds totally non digital to me. I love it. But audio effects are not synths and "pure, clean mathematics" work well for that.
ivarin wrote: speaking about sound quality in general, i've never heard anything like NI's stuff, mostly Reaktor. this is top notch computer sound to me.
I don't like all of Reaktor's possible sounds — the palette is very wide — but when a synth implemented in it sounds "digital" I find that to me typically it's the "good digital" sound that I'm after.
Make some music!

ivarin
Posts: 114
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2014 3:45 pm
Contact:

Re: OSCiLLOT

Post by ivarin » Fri Dec 23, 2016 1:19 pm

Stromkraft wrote: I don't like all of Reaktor's possible sounds — the palette is very wide — but when a synth implemented in it sounds "digital" I find that to me typically it's the "good digital" sound that I'm after.
have you listened to Monark or Blocks? they have unbelievably amazing oscillators and filters

Stromkraft
Posts: 7033
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am

Re: OSCiLLOT

Post by Stromkraft » Fri Dec 23, 2016 1:38 pm

ivarin wrote:
Stromkraft wrote: I don't like all of Reaktor's possible sounds — the palette is very wide — but when a synth implemented in it sounds "digital" I find that to me typically it's the "good digital" sound that I'm after.
have you listened to Monark or Blocks? they have unbelievably amazing oscillators and filters
I use Monark almost in every track currently, and work on a version of it with just the filters. I'm not sure about the high end when I'm pressing it and find that I have to tread on a delicate balance to not enter into harsh territory. That said it's way better than much else software synths I have or have heard.

I don't have Reaktor 6 yet, so no Blocks for me.
Last edited by Stromkraft on Mon Dec 26, 2016 9:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Make some music!

ivarin
Posts: 114
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2014 3:45 pm
Contact:

Re: OSCiLLOT

Post by ivarin » Fri Dec 23, 2016 1:50 pm

Stromkraft,

as you may already know, Blocks has separate oscs and filters from monark (apart from tons of other stuff) so you wouldn't have had to hassle with reassembling Monark.ens

sorry if i'm pointing at obious things, therer is Reaktor Blocks Wired and it's free just in case you'd want to try it out to get the idea

ecuk
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2016 7:49 pm

Re: OSCiLLOT

Post by ecuk » Sat Dec 24, 2016 6:18 pm

Stromkraft wrote:So is the quality of sound you make with your patches reminiscent of the sound you can hear in the demo videos and Soundcloud examples? I immediately recognise a digital quality that I don't like from all other Max For Live synths that I've tried or heard. That seems inevitable with MFL synths.

What do you think?

How does OSCiLLOT stand up when compared to modular solutions in Reaktor, Softube Modular, Aalto or others?
I beg to differ with your blanket statement that ‘a digital quality... seems inevitable with MFL synths’. Max (for Live) is a Turing-complete programming language. In the hands of a good audio programmer, Max is as capable as C, C++ or Lisp (amongst others) for creating great synths. There is no fundamental difference whatsoever between the sound quality that is possible in Max and that which is possible in creating a VST in C++.

At first glance alone, OSCiLLOT comes with far more modules than does Modular—subjective sound quality notwithstanding. For me, however, the greatest strength of OSCiLLOT is its SDK, which allows you to extend the palette of modules. With the likes of Softube’s Modular, on the other hand, you are inherently limited to the handful of modules that they provide. To use only the modules that OSCiLLOT provides out of the box is, to me, in some sense comparable to only using presets for a typical VST synth. I prefer to have the extensibility that is possible in OSCiLLOT.

These thoughts notwithstanding, I do agree that the vast majority of people creating Max (for Live) synths and effects do not use the language to its full advantage, preferring to stick more or less with the basic audio tools that are readily available out of the box. What sets developers such as Max for Cats, makers of OSCiLLOT, and Surreal Machines, makers of Dub Machines and more recently Transient Machines, apart from most others is that they are truly capable Max programmers.

Eric
MacBook Pro, macOS Catalina 10.15.1, 2.7GHz i7, 16GB – Live Suite 10.1.5, Max 8.1.1, Push 2, ATH-M50x

Stromkraft
Posts: 7033
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am

Re: OSCiLLOT

Post by Stromkraft » Sat Dec 24, 2016 11:03 pm

ecuk wrote:
Stromkraft wrote: I immediately recognise a digital quality that I don't like from all other Max For Live synths that I've tried or heard. That seems inevitable with MFL synths.

What do you think?
I beg to differ with your blanket statement that ‘a digital quality... seems inevitable with MFL synths’. Max (for Live) is a Turing-complete programming language. In the hands of a good audio programmer, Max is as capable as C, C++ or Lisp (amongst others) for creating great synths. There is no fundamental difference whatsoever between the sound quality that is possible in Max and that which is possible in creating a VST in C++.
I welcome you differing. And yes, that's the theory and was originally why I had some interest in MFL synths. But, in practice, I've yet to work with and hear one (MFL synth) patch that doesn't sound like the "wrong digital" to me, or play with one of the synths in a track and then keep it because it's so good. I've had enough of those experiences (also with other products), that's all.

To me, it would appear as if I'd have to embrace the different qualities chosen by MFL synth developers to be able to get into them. I can see someone can make great music using popular MFL synth tools and I'd be no wiser on what synth they'd use. But what I hear is what I want to avoid. And it's not like I don't enjoy "digital" synths either. Maybe this is just a taste thing?

All I know is that when I turn those knobs from my Push or GUI controlling the native MFL synths they don't sound as good as when I turn knobs in other synths, also those I encounter for the first time.

I realize that OSCiLLOT is different, so I've had my eye on it. So far, I haven't liked what I've heard that much, though the features look really nice. I can't shake that, which I react to though.

When I got some more time I'll try the different demos more in depth and see what feels best. But I trust my instincts as they have led me right, so far, and I don't think it's very hard to make up your mind. In my experience, you just know (It's not about presets as I ignore those for the most part).

I'm not fond of the Live native synths either, but I have warmed up to Collision lately and so far it's in a track of mine.

Modulars, also in software, are about another kind of exploration so I'd like to maintain an open mind and try different solutions and learn what I like. OSCiLLOT remains on my list.

Thanks for your views. I have hope for Max For Live and the MFL tools I do use I couldn't be without.
Make some music!

ivarin
Posts: 114
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2014 3:45 pm
Contact:

Re: OSCiLLOT

Post by ivarin » Fri Jan 20, 2017 6:57 pm

well, it's almost a week since my support request. and i can't open my .als to keep on working. speaking on usability...

kleine
Posts: 1850
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2001 11:46 am
Location: ableton
Contact:

Re: OSCiLLOT

Post by kleine » Fri Jan 20, 2017 7:03 pm

Will look into it this weekend!

ivarin
Posts: 114
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2014 3:45 pm
Contact:

Re: OSCiLLOT

Post by ivarin » Sun Jan 29, 2017 10:49 pm

well, after a week online with max for cats' support the problem isn't resolved. i'm still unable to open my set, and that's not the first critical issue i'm having with oscillot. refund doesn't seem possible as well. most unstable and ridiculous pack Ableton has on its site. fuck dat shit, i'm greatly dissapointed

kleine
Posts: 1850
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2001 11:46 am
Location: ableton
Contact:

Re: OSCiLLOT

Post by kleine » Sun Jan 29, 2017 10:56 pm

It's a bit hard to help you, if you don't send the requested files but instead bad-mouth on public forums. I'm sorry of your trouble, which i
could not reproduce - but then again i don't have all the VST's installed you have in your set.
Send me the latest files i requested and i'll dig deeper.
As for refund, you can always talk to Ableton support.
Please note that this is not a general problem but something apparently specific to your
setup/combination.

Thanks,
Christian

ivarin
Posts: 114
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2014 3:45 pm
Contact:

Re: OSCiLLOT

Post by ivarin » Sun Jan 29, 2017 11:09 pm

Ableton support confirmed it's Max for Live related issue. i've recorded screen video which shows there's nothing but oscillot device causes the crash, therefore no vsts involved.
i sent all reports i had, including ones from the other laptop i reproduced the problem on.
instead of your trying on solving the issue you pointed me to Ableton's support, answering once in a blue moon.
i have postponed my recording sessions because of that trouble, having to prove you i'm not making that out.

and yes, once i posted here you started anwering my mails. thanks
Last edited by ivarin on Sun Jan 29, 2017 11:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.

kleine
Posts: 1850
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2001 11:46 am
Location: ableton
Contact:

Re: OSCiLLOT

Post by kleine » Sun Jan 29, 2017 11:20 pm

Generally Ableton support is the first address for any packs you buy on the ableton site.
I'm happy to try to help to find the cause of your problems, naturally but Ableton support has better tools for this.
..
Did you try my suggestions?

ivarin
Posts: 114
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2014 3:45 pm
Contact:

Re: OSCiLLOT

Post by ivarin » Sun Jan 29, 2017 11:28 pm

i did. another report sent :(

Post Reply