OSCiLLOT

[Stromkraft]

So is the quality of sound you make with your patches reminiscent of the sound you can hear in the demo videos and Soundcloud examples? I immediately recognise a digital quality that I don't like from all other Max For Live synths that I've tried or heard. That seems inevitable with MFL synths.

What do you think?

How does OSCiLLOT stand up when compared to modular solutions in Reaktor, Softube Modular, Aalto or others?

[ivarin]

Stomkraft,

totally agree with you, Max patches (including M4L devices of course) have quite recognizable digital flavour. don't know what soundcloud demos you mean tho.
as i read once on some forum, 'Max requires much more low-lever work to achieve richer sound comparing to Reaktor'

in spite of that, Magnetic remains my favourite delay, i can't believe it's made in Max. and sometimes i may use an M4L synth or effect to get this 'digitaly quality' sound in purpose.

speaking about sound quality in general, i've never heard anything like NI's stuff, mostly Reaktor. this is top notch computer sound to me.

[Stromkraft]

Stomkraft,

totally agree with you, Max patches (including M4L devices of course) have quite recognizable digital flavour. don't know what soundcloud demos you mean tho.

I meant the official OSCiLLOT videos and official Soundcloud examples.

in spite of that, Magnetic remains my favourite delay, i can't believe it's made in Max.

One my favourites as well and it sounds totally non digital to me. I love it. But audio effects are not synths and "pure, clean mathematics" work well for that.

speaking about sound quality in general, i've never heard anything like NI's stuff, mostly Reaktor. this is top notch computer sound to me.

I don't like all of Reaktor's possible sounds — the palette is very wide — but when a synth implemented in it sounds "digital" I find that to me typically it's the "good digital" sound that I'm after.

[ivarin]

I don't like all of Reaktor's possible sounds — the palette is very wide — but when a synth implemented in it sounds "digital" I find that to me typically it's the "good digital" sound that I'm after.

have you listened to Monark or Blocks? they have unbelievably amazing oscillators and filters

[Stromkraft]

I don't like all of Reaktor's possible sounds — the palette is very wide — but when a synth implemented in it sounds "digital" I find that to me typically it's the "good digital" sound that I'm after.

have you listened to Monark or Blocks? they have unbelievably amazing oscillators and filters

I use Monark almost in every track currently, and work on a version of it with just the filters. I'm not sure about the high end when I'm pressing it and find that I have to tread on a delicate balance to not enter into harsh territory. That said it's way better than much else software synths I have or have heard.

I don't have Reaktor 6 yet, so no Blocks for me.

[ivarin]

Stromkraft,

as you may already know, Blocks has separate oscs and filters from monark (apart from tons of other stuff) so you wouldn't have had to hassle with reassembling Monark.ens

sorry if i'm pointing at obious things, therer is Reaktor Blocks Wired and it's free just in case you'd want to try it out to get the idea

[ecuk]

So is the quality of sound you make with your patches reminiscent of the sound you can hear in the demo videos and Soundcloud examples? I immediately recognise a digital quality that I don't like from all other Max For Live synths that I've tried or heard. That seems inevitable with MFL synths.

What do you think?

How does OSCiLLOT stand up when compared to modular solutions in Reaktor, Softube Modular, Aalto or others?

I beg to differ with your blanket statement that ‘a digital quality... seems inevitable with MFL synths’. Max (for Live) is a Turing-complete programming language. In the hands of a good audio programmer, Max is as capable as C, C++ or Lisp (amongst others) for creating great synths. There is no fundamental difference whatsoever between the sound quality that is possible in Max and that which is possible in creating a VST in C++.

At first glance alone, OSCiLLOT comes with far more modules than does Modular—subjective sound quality notwithstanding. For me, however, the greatest strength of OSCiLLOT is its SDK, which allows you to extend the palette of modules. With the likes of Softube’s Modular, on the other hand, you are inherently limited to the handful of modules that they provide. To use only the modules that OSCiLLOT provides out of the box is, to me, in some sense comparable to only using presets for a typical VST synth. I prefer to have the extensibility that is possible in OSCiLLOT.

These thoughts notwithstanding, I do agree that the vast majority of people creating Max (for Live) synths and effects do not use the language to its full advantage, preferring to stick more or less with the basic audio tools that are readily available out of the box. What sets developers such as Max for Cats, makers of OSCiLLOT, and Surreal Machines, makers of Dub Machines and more recently Transient Machines, apart from most others is that they are truly capable Max programmers.

Eric

[Stromkraft]

I immediately recognise a digital quality that I don't like from all other Max For Live synths that I've tried or heard. That seems inevitable with MFL synths.

What do you think?

I beg to differ with your blanket statement that ‘a digital quality... seems inevitable with MFL synths’. Max (for Live) is a Turing-complete programming language. In the hands of a good audio programmer, Max is as capable as C, C++ or Lisp (amongst others) for creating great synths. There is no fundamental difference whatsoever between the sound quality that is possible in Max and that which is possible in creating a VST in C++.

I welcome you differing. And yes, that's the theory and was originally why I had some interest in MFL synths. But, in practice, I've yet to work with and hear one (MFL synth) patch that doesn't sound like the "wrong digital" to me, or play with one of the synths in a track and then keep it because it's so good. I've had enough of those experiences (also with other products), that's all.

To me, it would appear as if I'd have to embrace the different qualities chosen by MFL synth developers to be able to get into them. I can see someone can make great music using popular MFL synth tools and I'd be no wiser on what synth they'd use. But what I hear is what I want to avoid. And it's not like I don't enjoy "digital" synths either. Maybe this is just a taste thing?

All I know is that when I turn those knobs from my Push or GUI controlling the native MFL synths they don't sound as good as when I turn knobs in other synths, also those I encounter for the first time.

I realize that OSCiLLOT is different, so I've had my eye on it. So far, I haven't liked what I've heard that much, though the features look really nice. I can't shake that, which I react to though.

When I got some more time I'll try the different demos more in depth and see what feels best. But I trust my instincts as they have led me right, so far, and I don't think it's very hard to make up your mind. In my experience, you just know (It's not about presets as I ignore those for the most part).

I'm not fond of the Live native synths either, but I have warmed up to Collision lately and so far it's in a track of mine.

Modulars, also in software, are about another kind of exploration so I'd like to maintain an open mind and try different solutions and learn what I like. OSCiLLOT remains on my list.

Thanks for your views. I have hope for Max For Live and the MFL tools I do use I couldn't be without.

[ivarin]

well, it's almost a week since my support request. and i can't open my .als to keep on working. speaking on usability...

[kleine]

Will look into it this weekend!

[ivarin]

well, after a week online with max for cats' support the problem isn't resolved. i'm still unable to open my set, and that's not the first critical issue i'm having with oscillot. refund doesn't seem possible as well. most unstable and ridiculous pack Ableton has on its site. fuck dat shit, i'm greatly dissapointed

[kleine]

It's a bit hard to help you, if you don't send the requested files but instead bad-mouth on public forums. I'm sorry of your trouble, which i
could not reproduce - but then again i don't have all the VST's installed you have in your set.
Send me the latest files i requested and i'll dig deeper.
As for refund, you can always talk to Ableton support.
Please note that this is not a general problem but something apparently specific to your
setup/combination.

Thanks,
Christian

[ivarin]

Ableton support confirmed it's Max for Live related issue. i've recorded screen video which shows there's nothing but oscillot device causes the crash, therefore no vsts involved.
i sent all reports i had, including ones from the other laptop i reproduced the problem on.
instead of your trying on solving the issue you pointed me to Ableton's support, answering once in a blue moon.
i have postponed my recording sessions because of that trouble, having to prove you i'm not making that out.

and yes, once i posted here you started anwering my mails. thanks

[kleine]

Generally Ableton support is the first address for any packs you buy on the ableton site.
I'm happy to try to help to find the cause of your problems, naturally but Ableton support has better tools for this.
..
Did you try my suggestions?

[ivarin]

i did. another report sent