Helpful Max For Live Information.

Questions and discussion about building and using Max for Live devices
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[erm]
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Helpful Max For Live Information.

Post by [erm] » Mon Jun 08, 2015 1:55 pm

I wanted to start and sticky a thread where people can share useful tips for those using Max 4 Live. Tutorials, guides, helpful videos, links to anything else you think other M4L users would benefit from. I know this stuff always generates some discussion, but please try and keep it limited to providing useful information for other M4L users. Thanks!

- Tarekith




Some online tutorials:

Cycling 74's Tutorials Page

Barry Moon's Baz Tutorials

Sam Tarakajian's Max video tutorials

Peter Batchelor's Max tutorials

Peter Elsea's Max tutorials

Reading the Live Object Model (LOM)

Michael Chenetz great video tutorials

M4L Wiki from the Cycling74 website

And some books:

Electronic Music and Sound Design - Theory and Practice with Max and Msp - Volume 1

Electronic Music and Sound Design - Theory and Practice with Max and Msp - Volume 2

Max/MSP/Jitter for Music: A Practical Guide to Developing Interactive Music Systems for Education and More

Interactive Composition: Strategies Using Ableton Live and Max for Live

Max for Live Ultimate Zen Guide

[I've merged all the links in this 1st post for clarity. Thanks to Strintapper who provided a lot of them. Julien]
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esotericmetal
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Re: Helpful Max For Live Information.

Post by esotericmetal » Mon Jun 15, 2015 9:45 pm

Great idea! I'm learning Max right now and learning resources are most welcome.

Does anyone have any experience with the Electronic Music and Sound Design books? Was considering purchasing it but it isn't cheap and I want to be sure that it's not info that I can't get from all the free resources out there.

stringtapper
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Re: Helpful Max For Live Information.

Post by stringtapper » Mon Jun 15, 2015 11:33 pm

The EMSD books are great resources. Each chapter is organized as a pair of sections: theory and practice. The theory sections give you all of the theoretical (scientific and mathematical) background of the topic and then the practice sections show you how to implement those principles using Max. I think they're the best Max books out there.

The theoretical information they contain can probably be found somewhere on the internet, but probably not in one place. The practical applications of the theories in the form of patches that they guide you in building is not something you'll find for free.
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Airyck
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Re: Helpful Max For Live Information.

Post by Airyck » Tue Jun 30, 2015 9:15 pm

Thanks! Buying the ESMD book part 1. I'm very excited about all of this :)
I'm taking a lot of Math classes right now for my Electrical Engineering degree, hopefully this will help keep me motivated to learn to love Math.
http://www.soundcloud.com/airyck-sterrett
Ableton Live 10 Suite / Push 2 / Max 7 & 8 /
2016 Macbook Pro 15"
Too much hardware to list

ShelLuser
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Re: Helpful Max For Live Information.

Post by ShelLuser » Thu Oct 22, 2015 4:34 am

I've written a few tutorials in the past, specifically aimed at my M4l device the LOM.Navigator but also some more general onces such as 'hacking' the APC40 and a 4 part tutorial on using regular expressions in M4l.

I let the original domain synthfan.info expire but have since then moved the site onto my main domain. The tutorial overview can now be found here: http://synthfan.catslair.org/mytutorials/

Obviously dated material, but I noticed that some people still used parts of it.
With kind regards,

Peter

Using the Big Trio: Live 10 Suite + Push, Max8 / M4l and Reason 10
Blog: SynthFan

NoSonic822
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Re: Helpful Max For Live Information.

Post by NoSonic822 » Thu Jun 09, 2016 5:17 am

http:
Last edited by NoSonic822 on Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

[jur]
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Re: Helpful Max For Live Information.

Post by [jur] » Sun Jun 19, 2016 10:46 pm

Inversoundzzz wrote:https://docs.cycling74.com/max5/vignett ... ezing.html
Freezing Max for Live Devices
Freezing a Max device prepares it for distribution. A frozen device contains files it needs to operate. These files might include subpatchers, audio files, image files, Javascript code, or third-party Max external objects. (When you freeze a device that contains third-party external objects, you can include both Windows and Macintosh versions of the external in your Max search path, if you have them both. The frozen device device will then will contain both versions, and will work on both platforms.) Max analyzes your device to find any files it uses (called dependencies), and then combines these files with your device. When a frozen device is opened, the files inside the device are used, even if similarly named files reside on your disk in the Max search path.

Freezing a Device

Click the Freeze button in the device window toolbar.

Choose Save from the File menu to save the device. The device is now frozen and is reloaded in Live in its frozen state.

Note that the device is not frozen immediately when you click the freeze button. It is frozen when you save it. Before saving, you can make further changes to the device after clicking the Freeze button by clicking the Freeze button again to unfreeze. When your changes are finished, click the Freeze button again, then choose Save from the File menu.
Inversoundzzz wrote:https://docs.cycling74.com/max5/vignett ... ncies.html
Managing Dependencies
Max analyzes the files your patchers use and automatically includes them when creating a frozen device. However, in some cases, you will have to tell Max about files your patchers use:

Files used by objects as a result of using messages. One example is a new patcher loaded via the load message sent to a pcontrol object. If you load a file into an object and then freeze and save the device, some, but not all, objects will add the file to the device. Objects that will not add files they are using that were opened via messages include detonate, funbuff, imovie, itable, sfplay~, sflist~, and text.
Files used by objects that never add them automatically to frozen devices. The mxj object never adds the Java class files it uses, nor can they be added to frozen devices because mxj doesn't know how to access them. Third-party Max objects may not support automatic inclusion of the files they use in frozen devices or may not be able to read files included in frozen devices.

If a patcher's automatic file usage analysis is not sufficient, you can add files to a patcher as explicit dependencies using the Dependencies window. Once you specify an explicit dependency, it will be saved with a patcher and included every time you save a frozen device with that patcher. Files that are automatically included with a patcher - implicit dependencies - can also be managed in the Dependencies window.

Adding a File as an Explicit Dependency

Choose Dependencies from the View menu when a patcher window is topmost. The Dependencies window will appear.

Click the + (Add File Dependency) button in the Dependency window toolbar. A new dependency called Dependency_1 will appear.
Click the Choose... button to associate a file with the dependency. Or type in a filename or pathname -- if you type in a name that refers to a valid file, the Type column will change from Missing to the type of the file.
Note that all dependencies must be in the Max search path. Files not in the search path will be listed as missing.
To add a folder of files, click the Add Folder Dependency button instead. As with file dependencies, folders must be in the search path.


Removing an Explicit Dependency

With the Dependencies window open, select the name of the file you wish to remove, then click the - button in the Dependencies window toolbar. The file will disappear from the list of dependencies.
Only explicit dependencies (with Choose... buttons next to their names) can be removed.

Showing Object Dependencies
By default, Max external objects are not listed in the Dependencies window, because in most cases they are handled automatically for you. Objects included with a standard Max installation are never included in frozen devices. Objects created by third parties are always included.

Click the Show Objects icon in the Dependency window toolbar.
Objects included in the patcher will appear. Objects included in a standard Max install are labeled object in the Type column. Objects not included in a standard installation are labeled object (third-party). Third-party objects are always included in a frozen device. Standard objects are never included.

Showing Dependency Sources
The Source column of the Dependencies window indicates the patcher(s) that use each file.

Double-click on the patcher name(s) shown in the Source column for a dependency.
If there is only one patcher name listed, that patcher window will be brought to the front. If there are multiple names, you will see a menu of patcher names. Choose the desired patcher from the menu, and it will be brought to the front.
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DesertSound
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Re: Helpful Max For Live Information.

Post by DesertSound » Sun Nov 26, 2017 9:36 pm

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ShelLuser
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Re: Helpful Max For Live Information.

Post by ShelLuser » Sun Sep 01, 2019 9:23 am

Figured I might as well ;)

Don't blindly believe the Live Object Model because it contains a lot of undocumented and hidden features. Instead, use a device such as my LOM.Navigator to do some investigating and you can learn quite a bit (I know the device has an outdated user interface, I'm working on that, but it's functionality is still on-par).

For example, the path "control_surfaces 0" will point you to your first control surface. But did you realize that "live_app control_surfaces 0" does the exact same thing? :) The main difference is that it's not cleanly implemented, so I suppose it could also be a bug. The control_surfaces main class allows you to check for a list (and thus the existence) of the control surface(s) and also get any names. The live_app class only lists the 6 available slots for a control surface and you'll only see if one actually exists after trying to access the path itself.

I thought it was an interesting treat.

Second....

According to the LOM chart the appointed_device is an optional child leading to a single device. In reality however it's simply a property that leads to no where, it only returns a value (this is correctly documented in the Song class).

These are interesting times :)
With kind regards,

Peter

Using the Big Trio: Live 10 Suite + Push, Max8 / M4l and Reason 10
Blog: SynthFan

Airyck
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Re: Helpful Max For Live Information.

Post by Airyck » Mon Sep 02, 2019 2:55 am

ShelLuser wrote:
Sun Sep 01, 2019 9:23 am

Don't blindly believe the Live Object Model because it contains a lot of undocumented and hidden features. Instead, use a device such as my LOM.Navigator ...
Your device along with Live.API_Explorer and LiveAPI-Interactive were the most helpful to me when it came to understanding the Live Object Model. I still use them to help me quickly find things rather than use the LOM documentation. I definitely still look at the LOM documentation to get details when I'm really digging to find a way to do something I want to do. But these 3 devices are indispensable IMHO.

After going from "I know nothing" to "I can figure out anything" I think the very best way to learn Max is the included documentations and tutorials. I have lots of books but the included tutorials and individual object documentation/help files included with the program is all you really need.

After you learn the basics, search the Cycling74 Forums for creative ways to do whatever it is you're trying to do. The user base there is a crazy good resource. Someone else has probably already asked what you're asking and people will give many different ways of doing it.

The other thing is practice. If you don't make Max stuff on a regular basis you'll start to forget what you've learned. If you save your old patches you can dig into ways you did things in the past and more or less build your own library of abstractions/patchers to add to your new devices.

Happy patching!
http://www.soundcloud.com/airyck-sterrett
Ableton Live 10 Suite / Push 2 / Max 7 & 8 /
2016 Macbook Pro 15"
Too much hardware to list

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