Live 10 surround Panner ?

Questions and discussion about building and using Max for Live devices
chapelier fou
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Live 10 surround Panner ?

Post by chapelier fou » Fri Nov 03, 2017 10:23 am

I can't find it anywhere...
MacBook Pro 13" Retina i7 2.8 GHz OS 10.13, L10.0.1, M4L.
iMac 27" Retina i5 3,2 GHz OS 10.11.3 L10.0.1 M4L.

[jur]
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Re: Live 10 surround Panner ?

Post by [jur] » Fri Nov 03, 2017 12:36 pm

It's not there yet.
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stringtapper
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Re: Live 10 surround Panner ?

Post by stringtapper » Fri Nov 03, 2017 7:31 pm

Is the multi-channel audio feature in there yet? I can't pre-order quite yet to get in on the beta or I would look at it myself.

This feature will really help me out as I integrate Eurorack hardware into my setup. I'm using the DC-coupled outs on my MOTU interface to send CV signals generated in my own M4L devices to the modular hardware. Not having to create a track for every channel would be fabulous.

EDIT: just realized they don't charge the full amount until it releases, so I went ahead and pre-ordered. In the queue for the beta and looking forward to testing the multi-channel audio with M4L!!!
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chapelier fou
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Re: Live 10 surround Panner ?

Post by chapelier fou » Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:06 pm

Thanks for the answer.
Any other way to route signal to different external outputs within m4l ?
I tried everything i could on plugout~ without success. Or simply the send~ and receive~ object now work properly ?
MacBook Pro 13" Retina i7 2.8 GHz OS 10.13, L10.0.1, M4L.
iMac 27" Retina i5 3,2 GHz OS 10.11.3 L10.0.1 M4L.

oblique strategies
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Re: Live 10 surround Panner ?

Post by oblique strategies » Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:40 pm

Very interested in this panner.

Looks like the panner allows a direct routing to outputs, rather than having to use aux sends which are in turn routed to external outputs.

However, the aux sends method does allow one to see the surround placement & panning for each channel & Return at the same time.

oblique strategies
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Re: Live 10 surround Panner ?

Post by oblique strategies » Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:25 am

chapelier fou wrote:I can't find it anywhere...
Me neither. :(

[nis]
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Re: Live 10 surround Panner ?

Post by [nis] » Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:17 pm

Yes, the panner does allow to route the device's outputs directly to the soundcard's outputs or to other tracks. We're still finishing up some bits, but it should be available for testing soon.

As far as how the multichannel routing feature works in M4L, there are two different ways to use it. Both of them require to define the number of inputs / outputs in the Max device's plugin~ / plugout~ objects, e.g. 'plugin~ 1 2 3 4' gives you the regular stereo input as well as a second pair of inputs (3/4). With this, you can:
1. Send a track's output into a Max device's sidechain inputs by using a track's Audio To chooser. Likewise you can tap a Max device's output on another track by using a track's Audio From chooser. This is similar to how it works with multichannel VST plugins.
2. Directly send a Max device's output to other tracks or to external outputs by using the M4L API. Receiving audio from other tracks works as well. There are several new API functions which allow to get a list of available inputs / outputs and then address them accordingly. We'll post an example soon.

Best,
Nico
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Angstrom
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Re: Live 10 surround Panner ?

Post by Angstrom » Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:38 pm

[nis] wrote:Yes, the panner does allow to route the device's outputs directly to the soundcard's outputs or to other tracks. We're still finishing up some bits, but it should be available for testing soon.

As far as how the multichannel routing feature works in M4L, there are two different ways to use it. Both of them require to define the number of inputs / outputs in the Max device's plugin~ / plugout~ objects, e.g. 'plugin~ 1 2 3 4' gives you the regular stereo input as well as a second pair of inputs (3/4). With this, you can:
1. Send a track's output into a Max device's sidechain inputs by using a track's Audio To chooser. Likewise you can tap a Max device's output on another track by using a track's Audio From chooser. This is similar to how it works with multichannel VST plugins.
2. Directly send a Max device's output to other tracks or to external outputs by using the M4L API. Receiving audio from other tracks works as well. There are several new API functions which allow to get a list of available inputs / outputs and then address them accordingly. We'll post an example soon.

Best,
Nico
this sounds ... very good, and the potential is fantastic.

Can I ask how the latency calculations are handled in the case of a loopback? That's surely going to be the tricky area. Is automatic latency compensation auto-disabled for those tracks?

stringtapper
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Re: Live 10 surround Panner ?

Post by stringtapper » Tue Nov 07, 2017 5:36 pm

[nis] wrote:As far as how the multichannel routing feature works in M4L, there are two different ways to use it. Both of them require to define the number of inputs / outputs in the Max device's plugin~ / plugout~ objects, e.g. 'plugin~ 1 2 3 4' gives you the regular stereo input as well as a second pair of inputs (3/4). With this, you can:
1. Send a track's output into a Max device's sidechain inputs by using a track's Audio To chooser. Likewise you can tap a Max device's output on another track by using a track's Audio From chooser. This is similar to how it works with multichannel VST plugins.
2. Directly send a Max device's output to other tracks or to external outputs by using the M4L API. Receiving audio from other tracks works as well. There are several new API functions which allow to get a list of available inputs / outputs and then address them accordingly. We'll post an example soon.

Best,
Nico
Thanks for the details, Nico!

Can you talk about the Audio Chooser method and whether individual channel inputs will be available in a future build (as opposed to only stereo pairs)?

EDIT: I just realized that the stereo pair restriction on the new “Audio From” option is really only an annoyance, since you can simply route the signal to both channels and then still route mono from the card.

Doing that I’m able to get eight grouped tracks of CV outs all getting their signals from the group master track with a single M4L CV device controlling it all. Pretty damn sweet.
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chapelier fou
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Re: Live 10 surround Panner ?

Post by chapelier fou » Tue Nov 07, 2017 7:07 pm

MacBook Pro 13" Retina i7 2.8 GHz OS 10.13, L10.0.1, M4L.
iMac 27" Retina i5 3,2 GHz OS 10.11.3 L10.0.1 M4L.

venetanji
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Re: Live 10 surround Panner ?

Post by venetanji » Wed Nov 08, 2017 9:31 am

Would be great to have a pointer to which M4L API are available for this. I want to work with ambisonics within live, ideally for this to be viable, each track should have an encoder that outputs to a B-format bus (multichannel, could be a group of tracks). All the spatialized sound sources should be able to output to this bus, so it's not possible to use the "audio from" dropdown for this, I'd need to tell each m4l encoder device to output channels to a specific set of tracks (many to one).

Looking forward to see more examples!

jonbenderr
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Re: Live 10 surround Panner ?

Post by jonbenderr » Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:11 am

Looks like there is a beta version of the surround panner available over at centercode now. Came out 3 days ago. No e-mail about it though and only just now seeing it after receiving the new Live 10 beta release.

New Live 10 beta release also has the LFO/Env Follower with multi mapping available now.

chapelier fou
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Re: Live 10 surround Panner ?

Post by chapelier fou » Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:24 pm

Thanks !
Curious to know if they managed to fix the Mapping bug with savings.
MacBook Pro 13" Retina i7 2.8 GHz OS 10.13, L10.0.1, M4L.
iMac 27" Retina i5 3,2 GHz OS 10.11.3 L10.0.1 M4L.

chapelier fou
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Re: Live 10 surround Panner ?

Post by chapelier fou » Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:49 pm

Downloaded it.
Couldn't test it but this seems quite seriously coded, with a gen~ core.

(btw, they did fix the MapButton !)
MacBook Pro 13" Retina i7 2.8 GHz OS 10.13, L10.0.1, M4L.
iMac 27" Retina i5 3,2 GHz OS 10.11.3 L10.0.1 M4L.

chapelier fou
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Re: Live 10 surround Panner ?

Post by chapelier fou » Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:57 pm

Well, gen~ code by Robert Henke.
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