All times are UTC

 
 



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Multichannel in Live 10 - surround panner
PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 6:29 pm 

Joined: Fri May 02, 2003 6:38 am
Posts: 1387
Location: France
Hi to all,
I had a very quick look at surround panner and don't really get it. I would like to have the possibility to use an odd number of channels. I don't find any way to do it with the standard device. Had a 2 mn look at the patch and noticed the [coll presets] object. Did anyone try to add presets in it ? Do I miss something obvious ?

_________________
Aboard from V. 1
MBP 2.5 Ghz I7 16 Go SSD OSX 10.12
MBP 2.3 ghz I7 16 Go SSD + HD 10.8.5 iPad2+Mira+Lemur/PadKontrol/BCR2000/ Livid Code+DS1
RME FF UC Live 9.7.7 MFL Max 8 + Max 7.3.5
Madlab sound unit / objects, guitar, electronics / end_of_transmission


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Multichannel in Live 10 - surround panner
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 3:12 pm 

Joined: Fri May 02, 2003 6:38 am
Posts: 1387
Location: France
22 views and no-one really ? Any words from the developers ?

_________________
Aboard from V. 1
MBP 2.5 Ghz I7 16 Go SSD OSX 10.12
MBP 2.3 ghz I7 16 Go SSD + HD 10.8.5 iPad2+Mira+Lemur/PadKontrol/BCR2000/ Livid Code+DS1
RME FF UC Live 9.7.7 MFL Max 8 + Max 7.3.5
Madlab sound unit / objects, guitar, electronics / end_of_transmission


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Multichannel in Live 10 - surround panner
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 3:31 pm 

Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 11:46 pm
Posts: 17146
Location: Ableton Forum Administrator
The developers don't really post here, these forums are more for users to help each other. Hopefully someone who knows this plug in will be able to offer some advice.

_________________
Erik M.
InnerPortalStudio.com - Professional Audio Mastering


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Multichannel in Live 10 - surround panner
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:07 pm 

Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 11:20 pm
Posts: 101
Not sure what you are looking for exactly. Can you be more specific? Are you looking to use the surround panner as intended or are you just trying to figure out how the audio sending actually works?

If you are trying to use it as intended, what problem are you running into that is preventing the result you want?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Multichannel in Live 10 - surround panner
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 2:07 pm 

Joined: Fri May 02, 2003 6:38 am
Posts: 1387
Location: France
The way the "Max api SendsXnodes" from te multichannel tools worked was perfect for me, except that it easily caused crackles. I miss the ability to easily specify the speakers' position like I did with nodes, their influence zone and define any speaker combination possible (that is between 2 to 12). I understand how the signal is routed, but I want ot have more speakers setup options. Like I wrote, I think it all starts with the [coll presets] but does that mean you have to change its content each time you want to move speaker, or add one ?

_________________
Aboard from V. 1
MBP 2.5 Ghz I7 16 Go SSD OSX 10.12
MBP 2.3 ghz I7 16 Go SSD + HD 10.8.5 iPad2+Mira+Lemur/PadKontrol/BCR2000/ Livid Code+DS1
RME FF UC Live 9.7.7 MFL Max 8 + Max 7.3.5
Madlab sound unit / objects, guitar, electronics / end_of_transmission


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Multichannel in Live 10 - surround panner
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 4:46 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:21 pm
Posts: 6247
madlab wrote:
I would like to have the possibility to use an odd number of channels.


This is likely why you're having trouble. The multichannel implementation in Live 10 only works with stereo pairs of channels. It's something we brought up during the beta, but it's not likely to change because of how Live's audio tracks work: they are all internally stereo channels whether they have a mono input or not.

The workaround I have used is to simply consider each stereo pair as a mono channel, which means the [plugin~]/[plugout~] objects will need to have twice as many channels as needed in their arguments.

_________________
Unsound Designer


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Multichannel in Live 10 - surround panner
PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 8:03 am 

Joined: Fri May 02, 2003 6:38 am
Posts: 1387
Location: France
That's clearly a workaround... This is definitly not designed for true multichannel work where you don't consider any two speakers as pairs. I expected some improvements about it. Quite disappointed...
Stringtapper, could you post an example of a version of the surround panner with an odd number of speakers so I can see the way you think about this ?

_________________
Aboard from V. 1
MBP 2.5 Ghz I7 16 Go SSD OSX 10.12
MBP 2.3 ghz I7 16 Go SSD + HD 10.8.5 iPad2+Mira+Lemur/PadKontrol/BCR2000/ Livid Code+DS1
RME FF UC Live 9.7.7 MFL Max 8 + Max 7.3.5
Madlab sound unit / objects, guitar, electronics / end_of_transmission


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Multichannel in Live 10 - surround panner
PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 1:55 am 

Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 1:49 am
Posts: 2
This is disappointing. Hmmmm. It would seem to me that the panner should be able to be set to accept 'any' number of speakers at any distance and angle... if you had to define outputs as pairs of speakers, why not simply ignore (not use) one output...the panner is separate from the outputs....

A panner without a way to set the speaker locations is... highly limited at best. As it stands out of the box, we aren't even able to pan using standard 5.1 and 7.1 setups. Hmmmm.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Custom Speaker Setups for Surround Panner
PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 2:05 am 

Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 1:49 am
Posts: 2
Hey - Has anyone modified the surround panner to include other speaker layouts? I'd love to see a 5.1 or 7.1 layout. What I'd really love to see is a way to freely define the number and location of those speakers.

No, I haven't yet dug into the Max patch.... Wise to check if the tool is available first before (trying, potentially in vain) to build it yourself.)

[mod edit] I've merged your topic here. No need to create a new one for discussing things discussed in a similar thread...you've been participating too [end]


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Multichannel in Live 10 - surround panner
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:09 pm 

Joined: Fri May 02, 2003 6:38 am
Posts: 1387
Location: France
Still no news about this point ?

_________________
Aboard from V. 1
MBP 2.5 Ghz I7 16 Go SSD OSX 10.12
MBP 2.3 ghz I7 16 Go SSD + HD 10.8.5 iPad2+Mira+Lemur/PadKontrol/BCR2000/ Livid Code+DS1
RME FF UC Live 9.7.7 MFL Max 8 + Max 7.3.5
Madlab sound unit / objects, guitar, electronics / end_of_transmission


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Multichannel in Live 10 - surround panner
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 3:01 pm 

Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2008 8:57 am
Posts: 153
Hi all.
Since I work with multichannel quite a lot the multi channel options looked promising, but now it looks more complicated than I thought, even though I built my own spat tool in Max (64*64 3D Dbap + ambisonic tool).
I thought I could easily translate it into m4l, but it is taking more time than I hoped , especially because m4l based on Max 8 is quite unreliable (I have a crash a day) compared to Max7 performance (at least for me, and I am running an i7700k).


I understand the frustration.

1) the surround panner presets have to be changed since the patch works with speakers position stored in a buffer
2) presets are not easily changeable, and one needs to understand what the gen pèatcher is doing (it does much more than just a dbap)
3) true the stereo pairs, but one can always pan pot stuff just to use a channel...
4) there are also ambisonic examples around , although ambisonics is fantastic it is still limited to centre scheme listening.

The surround panner is for surround- NOT for complex multichannel environments (where one is not sitting in the middle).
But it works fine for what it was made for, and I appreciate how it solves the centre distribution

So if you need different presets in surround panner, well, you need to cook them by yourself unfortunately...

_________________
A=B B=C C=A


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Multichannel in Live 10 - surround panner
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 9:04 pm 

Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2014 4:41 am
Posts: 342
There is this "Envelop For Live" project:

http://www.envelop.us/software/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Multichannel in Live 10 - surround panner
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 8:40 am 

Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2008 8:57 am
Posts: 153
yes, and it works like a charm

_________________
A=B B=C C=A


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 

All times are UTC

 
 

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group