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 Post subject: Re: Am I the *ONLY* one finding M4L actually honestly unusable!?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:24 pm 

Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 11:20 pm
Posts: 103
Windows user here.

I've never had a single problem with Live/Max4Live in 10 years of use. System upgrades/software upgrades/hardware upgrades...never a single problem with any of it other than my own oversights.

I've even put out a lot of my own M4L apps and have never had major issues or complaints from users. Unless they just choose to not contact me about it.

I understand not liking the way max is setup in the message/object/visual sense. To say it's unreliable and a waste of time? Nah...think there is something else going on there.


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 Post subject: Re: Am I the *ONLY* one finding M4L actually honestly unusable!?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:48 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2014 5:40 pm
Posts: 54
ecuk wrote:
19oclock wrote:
Max is a kludgy shit show attempt at mimicking true programming


Sorry, I can’t let this comment pass unchallenged. Max is a Turing complete programming language that has been around for a very long time (and is based on languages that have been around even longer). The fact that it does not look like many of the ‘standard’ text-based languages does not mean that it is any less of a programming language as a result.

Yes, I too tend to use JavaScript within Max when it seems easier for a given task. I also often write my own ‘externals’ in C when this is more appropriate. (Indeed, these might be more accurately called ‘internals’ because they effectively become part of Max.) But this extensibility does not detract from Max itself. Quite the contrary: it makes the language that much more powerful.

Max is a very capable language (and development environment) for DSP and audio—when in the hands of a good programmer. As a programming language it is semantically nothing more nor less than a bog-standard object-oriented language. It just happens to have a visual-oriented syntax.

Cheers,
Eric


It's all good. I guess I don't see the point in re-inventing the wheel with this visual approach and devices that store code in the form of pipes and objects. I come from a comp sci background and don't recall any of my teachers extolling the virtues of M4L. Hell, if I find myself using a mouse I'm usually disappointed in an application. I guess I don't like the idea of having to orient code readability across a 2 dimensional plane. By storing geometric orientation in code it just adds another layer of interpretation/overhead to the whole thing. It's wasteful.


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 Post subject: Re: Am I the *ONLY* one finding M4L actually honestly unusable!?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:04 pm 

Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 11:20 pm
Posts: 103
19oclock wrote:
By storing geometric orientation in code it just adds another layer of interpretation/overhead to the whole thing. It's wasteful.


Not sure what your point is. It's wasteful because of the visual elements? Pretty sure it's not.

It's meant to be accessible so people who are not familiar or comfortable with legit scripting/coding can still be creative and open new possibilities and creative avenues.

If it's not for you, I'm pretty sure that's fine. Get along with what you do like.


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 Post subject: Re: Am I the *ONLY* one finding M4L actually honestly unusable!?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:09 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2014 5:40 pm
Posts: 54
jonbenderr wrote:
19oclock wrote:
If it's not for you, I'm pretty sure that's fine. Get along with what you do like.


Totally agree.


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 Post subject: Re: Am I the *ONLY* one finding M4L actually honestly unusable!?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:40 pm 

Joined: Sat Sep 19, 2009 6:21 pm
Posts: 5
ecuk wrote:
19oclock wrote:
Max is a kludgy shit show attempt at mimicking true programming


Sorry, I can’t let this comment pass unchallenged. Max is a Turing complete programming language that has been around for a very long time (and is based on languages that have been around even longer). The fact that it does not look like many of the ‘standard’ text-based languages does not mean that it is any less of a programming language as a result.

Yes, I too tend to use JavaScript within Max when it seems easier for a given task. I also often write my own ‘externals’ in C when this is more appropriate. (Indeed, these might be more accurately called ‘internals’ because they effectively become part of Max.) But this extensibility does not detract from Max itself. Quite the contrary: it makes the language that much more powerful.

Max is a very capable language (and development environment) for DSP and audio—when in the hands of a good programmer. As a programming language it is semantically nothing more nor less than a bog-standard object-oriented language. It just happens to have a visual-oriented syntax.

Cheers,
Eric
my scripts are sometimes only JS, sometimes only nodes and both break. so i don't think it's the nodes' fault. it's the underlying system that has some bug(s).


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