M4L LFO Behaves Erratically

Questions and discussion about building and using Max for Live devices
parfaitbeaucoup
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu May 31, 2018 12:48 pm

M4L LFO Behaves Erratically

Post by parfaitbeaucoup » Tue Mar 05, 2019 4:50 pm

Hello,

Would love to be able to rely on the LFO plugin, but sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't. Please check out the screencast linked below and let me know if you have any suggestions for how to fix this...

https://youtu.be/d9X5D8hyGv0

I've installed a few max devices from max4live.com and I'm hoping they didn't somehow create a problem. I'm not the programming type so I really don't understand what's going on under the hood.

Best,
Devon

jonbenderr
Posts: 121
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 11:20 pm

Re: M4L LFO Behaves Erratically

Post by jonbenderr » Tue Mar 05, 2019 5:55 pm

First of all, thank you for posting some evidence of what is going on.

Something with scope~ isn't initializing properly.

Not at my computer to test right now, but have you tried remapping anyway despite the fact you can't see the wave in lfo?

Still not sure why this is such a necessary thing. Never had a fancy graphic of an LFO on most hardware. Or even software for that matter. :)

I'm gonna release a version of this with that scope~ deleted.

parfaitbeaucoup
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu May 31, 2018 12:48 pm

Re: M4L LFO Behaves Erratically

Post by parfaitbeaucoup » Tue Mar 05, 2019 6:01 pm

Yeah, valid point. But once it's there, I want it to work haha. Otherwise it just feels broken which erodes my trust in the plugin for practical use.

But that doesn't answer the second problem, why it sometimes isn't mapping at all. Any ideas for that?

jonbenderr
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Re: M4L LFO Behaves Erratically

Post by jonbenderr » Tue Mar 05, 2019 6:23 pm

I'll see if I can decipher what's going on with it when I get to the studio computer.

parfaitbeaucoup
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu May 31, 2018 12:48 pm

Re: M4L LFO Behaves Erratically

Post by parfaitbeaucoup » Tue Mar 05, 2019 6:34 pm

Thanks! Curious to hear back.

To follow up, yes even if the scope didn't initialize it was still mapping correctly when I just tested. But then, sometimes it doesn't map like I demonstrated in the second bit of that screencast. This goes for both LFO plugins btw, the orange one and the blue one. (in audio or MIDI mode)

Also, I've been noticing instances where values are not reflected properly when I map M4L to a macro and then adjust the range of that particular device setting in the macro map. Even though all the parameters read correctly and display the range that I've set, the effect will be modulated at the full range.

Here's an older screencast (no audio) demonstrating that issue: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlVae1MqM58

You can see that there's a miscommunication somewhere along the way.

Appreciate the help.

parfaitbeaucoup
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu May 31, 2018 12:48 pm

Re: M4L LFO Behaves Erratically

Post by parfaitbeaucoup » Tue Mar 05, 2019 7:23 pm

Here's another demonstration of this weird behavior. When the scope is not activated, the mapping works. As soon as I open it in max to reactivate the scope, then the mapping disappears...

https://youtu.be/yuyfeXoyIUU

jonbenderr
Posts: 121
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 11:20 pm

Re: M4L LFO Behaves Erratically

Post by jonbenderr » Wed Mar 06, 2019 3:39 pm

Sorry, still haven't had a chance to look at this yet.

It for sure looks like something is getting messed up in the initialization of the device.

Basically, when you open the device in max, it re-initializes everything, and on closing it something is being lost somewhere or it still thinks it is mapped but it isn't.

One thing to try when the gui doesn't respond like that is instead of opening it in max, minimize the device itself (double click on the device name bar) and than maximize it again.

I'll try again to get a look at what's going on this afternoon unless a brighter mind beats me to it.

jonbenderr
Posts: 121
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 11:20 pm

Re: M4L LFO Behaves Erratically

Post by jonbenderr » Thu Mar 07, 2019 10:35 am

Finally looked at this.

The waveform is actually drawn using Jitter. I know nothing about jitter and I cannot recreate the display failing, as hard as I might try. Thinking it may be something with your graphics/display driver. Not very helpful. Sorry.

I've also seen mentioned the HiDpi setting in the Look/Feel preferences menu that you may want to experiment with turning on and off?

I was able to recreate the loss of mapping function after opening the LFO in max and closing. Again, in doing that the patch is reinitialized and there is probably some sort of gate or something that's being closed/opened and then gets stuck in this state or that which is preventing further mapping.

So yeah...don't do that! :) Try minimizing and maximizing the device itself in Live and see if that clears the issue.

Also, there was a new version of the LFO bundled with Live 10 which you may want to try. It is more traditional in color scheme and looks like this:
Image

Of course this doesn't help much with older projects that use the old version.

[jur]
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Re: M4L LFO Behaves Erratically

Post by [jur] » Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:14 am

I haven't watched your video until now, and so as Jonbenderr suggested I'd say use the newer LFO version. It's optimised for Live 10 / Max 8.
Ableton Forum Moderator

parfaitbeaucoup
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu May 31, 2018 12:48 pm

Re: M4L LFO Behaves Erratically

Post by parfaitbeaucoup » Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:38 pm

Interrrrrresting. I totally assumed that was the old one based on the color scheme. Oops!

Thanks for looking into this, I'll keep the 'close and expand' trick in mind rather than opening it in max.

I just wish some of these basic max plugins (which can be so essential) were a little more bulletproof in Ableton...

If anybody has time to check out my other videos with other little bugs I've discovered, please do. I've also sent them to Ableton support.

Best,
Devon

jonbenderr
Posts: 121
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 11:20 pm

Re: M4L LFO Behaves Erratically

Post by jonbenderr » Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:59 pm

Report back if the new LFO works out better for you.

Also curious if minimizing/maximizing will sort out the issue with the older LFO.

parfaitbeaucoup
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu May 31, 2018 12:48 pm

Re: M4L LFO Behaves Erratically

Post by parfaitbeaucoup » Thu Mar 07, 2019 2:28 pm

For the record I was experiencing similar issues with the newer (orange) LFO as well. Sometimes it wouldn’t map, sometimes it wouldn’t initialize properly.

But now that I know it’s the newer option I’ll definitely be focusing on that one.

[jur]
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Location: Ableton

Re: M4L LFO Behaves Erratically

Post by [jur] » Thu Mar 07, 2019 2:39 pm

Are you running the internal Max or an external one?
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parfaitbeaucoup
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu May 31, 2018 12:48 pm

Re: M4L LFO Behaves Erratically

Post by parfaitbeaucoup » Thu Mar 07, 2019 3:04 pm

I always drag it in from the Max 4 Live sidebar in Ableton so I'm assuming it's internal. Elsewhere in my set I'm using some external ones dragged in straight from finder. To clarify: I'll use anything internally whenever possible, but I do use a fair amount that I've downloaded from www.maxforlive.com

jonbenderr
Posts: 121
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 11:20 pm

Re: M4L LFO Behaves Erratically

Post by jonbenderr » Thu Mar 07, 2019 9:56 pm

I believe jur is referring to whether or not you have a separate max install/license you are pointing to with Live.

As far as the gui problem you are having, I notice some jit.gl objects in the patch. Not 100% on this but I believe those interact directly with your display/graphics drivers. Are you using onboard graphics or a video card? I don't want to send you on a wild goose chase there but that might be the source of the display issue.

For me, testing the new lfo's mapping, I'm not encountering the same problem with mapping as I was with the old one. When I map...open the patch in max...then close...It still maps just fine. Hm. Was even able to save the set mapped, close, reopen and still mapped and functioning rock solid.

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