Master Pattern Switcher (Launchpad Sysex+x)

Questions and discussion about building and using Max for Live devices
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c00kie
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Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:15 am

Master Pattern Switcher (Launchpad Sysex+x)

Post by c00kie » Fri May 31, 2019 10:04 am

M4L Noob here. I wonder if something like this can be done:

I´m looking for a master device to control a variety of hardware sequencers and drum machines from a central point (I´m not an octopus). The idea is to use a launchpad pro to switch scenes/call patterns with 1 or more target devices mapped to each pad. The target devices need different message types, some need Program Change (electribe), other need sysex (RS-7000) and machinedrum for example needs note on.

So here is what should happen

PAD1:
- sends PG 24 to sequencer A
- sends PG 48 to sequencer B and drummachine C
- sends sysex for pattern 65 to sequencer D
- sends note on 85 to drum machine E

PAD2 would only do this
- sends PG 25 to sequencer A
- sends note on 87 to drum machine E

etc.


Controlling Ableton Live pattern selection / mute settings as well is a plus (one finger operation), but not essential. Of course having my second hand free for turning knobs would be preferred.

The timing is normally controled by the receivers, ie do they switch instantly or on the next bar or on pattern completion. It would of course be nice to have them all set to instant switch and control the behaviour from the M4L side, but that´s for version 2 or 3 (if at all)


So what are the parts I need to familiarize myself with and what´s a good starting point? Have similar things be done?

chapelier fou
Posts: 4914
Joined: Mon May 15, 2006 12:15 pm

Re: Master Pattern Switcher (Launchpad Sysex+x)

Post by chapelier fou » Fri May 31, 2019 12:44 pm

Max4Live devices can only output MIDI to one MIDI channel (the output selected in the MIDI track). So you'll probably end up with several MIDI tracks.

Knowing that, I think that you can achieve most of it with regular MIDI clips, apart from Sysex, but you should find a device that does that, quite easily.
So I'd make a group of tracks, each track for each device, and put the correct messages inside clip. Then map the group's play buttons to your LP Pro.

Would that work for you ?
MacBook Pro 13" Retina i7 2.8 GHz OS 10.13, L10.0.1, M4L.
iMac 27" Retina i5 3,2 GHz OS 10.11.3 L10.0.1 M4L.

c00kie
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:15 am

Re: Master Pattern Switcher (Launchpad Sysex+x)

Post by c00kie » Fri May 31, 2019 1:37 pm

Thanks for the heads up, wasn´t aware of that limit. For a proof of concept, it will work, but since I got the RS-7000, sysex is a must have. I don´t necessarily need that done within Live, so to get around the channel restriction, I will see if Max (not 4L) or Bome MIDI Translator can help here. Something like "if you receive note x from Launchpad, convert this to the following messages: (port1, channel 7, pgc 25), (port 2, channel 3, note 73) + (some sysex on port3).

But in order to just check if switching patterns works at all and how the switching behaviour looks on the different targets, I´ll get started with M4L. Grouping the pattern control tracks into a folder make things easier to look at, I can expand for setup and then fold for use.

Thank you again!

chapelier fou
Posts: 4914
Joined: Mon May 15, 2006 12:15 pm

Re: Master Pattern Switcher (Launchpad Sysex+x)

Post by chapelier fou » Fri May 31, 2019 3:18 pm

I'd preferably use a M4L device, but only to send sysex to your RS-7000.
For the rest, regular MIDI tracks.
It's always good to not use a second software if you can get around it.
MacBook Pro 13" Retina i7 2.8 GHz OS 10.13, L10.0.1, M4L.
iMac 27" Retina i5 3,2 GHz OS 10.11.3 L10.0.1 M4L.

c00kie
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:15 am

Re: Master Pattern Switcher (Launchpad Sysex+x)

Post by c00kie » Fri May 31, 2019 3:34 pm

True, many drawbacks to that, the only benefit would be that it would get around the destination limit on Live tracks. Wouldn´t it be nice if M4L could override the output settings of the track it is sitting in? So if nothing is specified, the track settings are inherited, but if you want to send to multiple locations for whatever reasons, you could still do that? But then again, this may conflict with the core structure of live and it also invites complexity, which isn´t always a good thing (troubleshooting!)

I´ll get started in M4L, need to learn that anyway and once I´m familiar there, I may go to the deep end of the pool and check in with Max standalone. But that´s just an option for next winter, I´m not even sure if programming works the same way in both environments.

chapelier fou
Posts: 4914
Joined: Mon May 15, 2006 12:15 pm

Re: Master Pattern Switcher (Launchpad Sysex+x)

Post by chapelier fou » Fri May 31, 2019 4:17 pm

Max and M4L are 99% the same program.
MacBook Pro 13" Retina i7 2.8 GHz OS 10.13, L10.0.1, M4L.
iMac 27" Retina i5 3,2 GHz OS 10.11.3 L10.0.1 M4L.

Airyck
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Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2009 11:54 pm
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Master Pattern Switcher (Launchpad Sysex+x)

Post by Airyck » Sat Jun 01, 2019 3:16 am

This is actually quite possible with Max for live and the Sysex/MIDI externals that are stickied to the top of the Max forum here.
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=220637

You’d use a MIDI in to receive from the Launchpad, and then make as many imp.midi outs as you need assigned to your MIDI devices. You can get a list and select them manually using a message on the input of imp.midi out.

If you have a Launchpad Pro you could also consider writing a custom firmware for it that does what you want. This could be completely separate or integrated with live.

https://github.com/dvhdr/launchpad-pro

The Max route is probably easier if you have limited programming experience but both are doable.
http://www.soundcloud.com/airyck-sterrett
Ableton Live 10 Suite / Push 2 / Max 7 & 8 /
2016 Macbook Pro 15"
Too much hardware to list

chapelier fou
Posts: 4914
Joined: Mon May 15, 2006 12:15 pm

Re: Master Pattern Switcher (Launchpad Sysex+x)

Post by chapelier fou » Sat Jun 01, 2019 9:56 am

Yeah I didn't want to talk about the imp.midi externals since the OP is a Max noob, I thought it would just add some confusion.
But yeah, this would allow it to work from a single M4L device !
MacBook Pro 13" Retina i7 2.8 GHz OS 10.13, L10.0.1, M4L.
iMac 27" Retina i5 3,2 GHz OS 10.11.3 L10.0.1 M4L.

c00kie
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:15 am

Re: Master Pattern Switcher (Launchpad Sysex+x)

Post by c00kie » Sat Jun 01, 2019 12:01 pm

I followed the link, but since I´m stuck on windows that would mean the channels couldn´t be used by Live, so that would mean every switch command receiver is off limits for being played from a remote keyboard (which would be routed thru live). Direct routing may work, but at the end of the day I´m probably better off doing things with basic M4L, put the switching tracks in a folder and start saving for a Mac :mrgreen:

Airyck
Posts: 711
Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2009 11:54 pm
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Master Pattern Switcher (Launchpad Sysex+x)

Post by Airyck » Sat Jun 01, 2019 6:17 pm

It’s been a while since I’ve worked with Windows and I overlooked this (and that you were on Windows) :/ . After a while you start to forget things like Multi client MIDI limitations and only being able to use 1 audio interface etc.. that comes with using Windows :oops:

Multiple channels as suggested above is probably your best bet; carry on.
http://www.soundcloud.com/airyck-sterrett
Ableton Live 10 Suite / Push 2 / Max 7 & 8 /
2016 Macbook Pro 15"
Too much hardware to list

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