Device not usable if patch open in max msp

Questions and discussion about building and using Max for Live devices
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sefable
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Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:19 pm

Device not usable if patch open in max msp

Post by sefable » Fri Oct 11, 2019 8:57 pm

When max msp is opened with the patch of a device, the device is not usuable in Ableton, it's grayed like this :

Image

So that it becomes usable, I need to close the patch in max msp.

This means each time I want to test the patch after editing it, I loose my zoom level, the position of the windows, the side bars and so on.

Is there a way to tell max msp to activate the device in Ableton without closing it?

Thanks

chapelier fou
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Joined: Mon May 15, 2006 12:15 pm

Re: Device not usable if patch open in max msp

Post by chapelier fou » Sat Oct 12, 2019 4:11 am

Do you mind posting a larger screenshot ?
MacBook Pro 13" Retina i7 2.8 GHz OS 10.13, L10.0.1, M4L.
iMac 27" Retina i5 3,2 GHz OS 10.11.3 L10.0.1 M4L.

sefable
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Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:19 pm

Re: Device not usable if patch open in max msp

Post by sefable » Sat Oct 12, 2019 12:16 pm

Here it is thanks!

Image

chapelier fou
Posts: 4938
Joined: Mon May 15, 2006 12:15 pm

Re: Device not usable if patch open in max msp

Post by chapelier fou » Sat Oct 12, 2019 1:38 pm

When you edit a device, you’re supposed to make changes from the Max application, not from Live.
MacBook Pro 13" Retina i7 2.8 GHz OS 10.13, L10.0.1, M4L.
iMac 27" Retina i5 3,2 GHz OS 10.11.3 L10.0.1 M4L.

sefable
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Re: Device not usable if patch open in max msp

Post by sefable » Sat Oct 12, 2019 1:52 pm

Yes that's what I do, I have no problem editing the device.

sefable
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Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:19 pm

Re: Device not usable if patch open in max msp

Post by sefable » Mon Oct 14, 2019 7:09 pm

I found a partial solution by opening a non embedded max msp instance that I downloaded on the cycling74 website.

When I hit "ctrl + s" on this instance, the device is instantly reloaded and usable in ableton.

The only issue is that parameters are not linked, meaning ithat when I move a dial in ableton using my Midi controller, the dial does not move in max msp.

It's a better solution because I'm not loosing all the IDE configuration (zoom level, opened windows, etc..) each time I want to try the device.

But now I must save before I can use the midi controller.

sefable
Posts: 70
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:19 pm

Re: Device not usable if patch open in max msp

Post by sefable » Wed Oct 16, 2019 6:08 am

Another thing I was not aware is releasing the preview mode as explained here : https://cycling74.com/forums/device-not ... in-max-msp

https://docs.cycling74.com/max8/vignettes/live_preview

I haven't tried that yet but it's worth knowing if you run into the same issue.

ShelLuser
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Re: Device not usable if patch open in max msp

Post by ShelLuser » Sat Oct 19, 2019 10:45 pm

sefable wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 8:57 pm
When max msp is opened with the patch of a device, the device is not usuable in Ableton, it's grayed like this :
That's by design. If you want to use the device you can do so from within the Max window, the motivation here is to prevent "bad things" to happen due to user errors. And no offense intended but your post does make me wonder why you'd even want this? Considering that, as mentioned, you can still use the device within Max as well as from any midi controller. It's definitely not "unusable".

Anyway, the solution is very simple: turn off preview mode:

Image

... something also mentioned in the manual I might add.

But seriously: it's a bad idea. As mentioned the device is not unusable, the controls shifted to the Max window and for very good reasons. Because not all of your changes will directly affect the device window and even more important: why not use the Max window?
With kind regards,

Peter

Using the 'Power' Trio: Live 10 Suite (+ Push & Max 8 ), Reason 10 and Maschine Mk3 (+ the ultimate Komplete 12).
Blog: SynthFan (under heavy construction!)

sefable
Posts: 70
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:19 pm

Re: Device not usable if patch open in max msp

Post by sefable » Sun Oct 20, 2019 9:46 am

why not use the max window?
Because some aspects of the patch behave differently from when it's used in Max and when it's used in Ableton.

For example : https://cycling74.com/forums/live-butto ... automation

To make sure the code works, one has to test the device in Ableton, because of those differences.

Tests done in the Max window are therefore not relevant and a waste of time.

sefable
Posts: 70
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:19 pm

Re: Device not usable if patch open in max msp

Post by sefable » Sun Oct 20, 2019 10:03 am

Another example of differences are keyboard key mappings.

They're not forwarded to Max. Midi mappings are.

ShelLuser
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Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 10:26 pm
Location: Wageningen, Netherlands

Re: Device not usable if patch open in max msp

Post by ShelLuser » Sun Oct 20, 2019 1:23 pm

I wonder if you're not confused with the aspect of freezing a device. Sometimes that's necessary to make a device work properly (better put: to make sure it's possible to properly export it) but this means that using the device can also has issues when not done properly. In which case this option wouldn't make too much difference.

Key mapping shouldn't be affected as far as I can tell (preview should be able to handle that) but I'll test this for myself in a few hours (best excuse to get some more work done on Live :mrgreen:). Can't say much about the thread because it's basically 9 years old and a lot has changed between now and then.

I'll have a look see but I'm pretty sure these issues are easily overcome.
With kind regards,

Peter

Using the 'Power' Trio: Live 10 Suite (+ Push & Max 8 ), Reason 10 and Maschine Mk3 (+ the ultimate Komplete 12).
Blog: SynthFan (under heavy construction!)

sefable
Posts: 70
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:19 pm

Re: Device not usable if patch open in max msp

Post by sefable » Sun Oct 20, 2019 2:27 pm

An other issue I had today concerns the range of a live.dial

I set "_parameter_range" in javascript.

In Max, the value "rawvalue" of the dial is not updated after sending "_parameter_range". (If you send a "bang" after changing the range, the rawvalue is not updated).

In Ableton, the value is updated.

Anyway, in general, testing should always be done as close as possible to the final setting, which is Ableton in my case. Not Max.

ShelLuser
Posts: 3793
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 10:26 pm
Location: Wageningen, Netherlands

Re: Device not usable if patch open in max msp

Post by ShelLuser » Sun Oct 20, 2019 9:48 pm

sefable wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 10:03 am
Another example of differences are keyboard key mappings.

They're not forwarded to Max. Midi mappings are.
That has nothing to do with preview mode but more so with the fact that you've opened another application on top of Live. Thus Max gets the main focus and also controls your keyboard.

Easily proven: Just enable your computer MIDI keyboard (by pressing 'm'). Now you can send midi data into your track by pressing a, s, d and so on. Add a M4l midi device and you can continue doing this. But as soon as you open up the device and start Max you'll notice that 'a' stops sending in midi data and now results in adding a new object ('attrui') to your patcher.

But there's more: add a live.toggle, save the patch and close it and then keymap the toggle. For example to '/'. Then open up the patch again, don't bother with preview (leave it on) and then put the focus back on Live again. Press '/' once (you won't see anything happen in the greyed out M4l device) and then switch back to your Max window. You will notice that the toggle got activated. Ergo: that key mappings got forwarded just fine, it doesn't matter if preview is on or off. Which you can see by turning preview off, then moving the focus back to Live and pressing / again, you'll notice that it toggles easily.

No offense but you should read up a bit more about these basic issues. Better yet: test them out for yourselves.
With kind regards,

Peter

Using the 'Power' Trio: Live 10 Suite (+ Push & Max 8 ), Reason 10 and Maschine Mk3 (+ the ultimate Komplete 12).
Blog: SynthFan (under heavy construction!)

sefable
Posts: 70
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:19 pm

Re: Device not usable if patch open in max msp

Post by sefable » Mon Oct 21, 2019 6:13 am

You're right for keyboard mapping. I confused the fact that contrary to midi controllers, the keyboard is released when you switch from window to window.

I'm switching to using a midi keyboard instead of keyboard keys.

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