Is it possible to receive from multichannel vst's in m4l.

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thorangutang2
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Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2018 2:34 pm

Is it possible to receive from multichannel vst's in m4l.

Post by thorangutang2 » Thu Nov 14, 2019 1:01 pm

Hello, is anyone able to tell me whether or not it is possible to receive audio from a multichannel Vst plugin inside M4l?

So receiving Vst output 1 - 2 on plugin~ 1 2 and Vst output on plugin~ 3 4 and so on?

(I want to send the outputs of multiple multichannel vst's to the same receiving tracks. )

Thank you!
Best
Thor

ShelLuser
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Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 10:26 pm
Location: Wageningen, Netherlands

Re: Is it possible to receive from multichannel vst's in m4l.

Post by ShelLuser » Thu Nov 14, 2019 2:24 pm

thorangutang2 wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 1:01 pm
So receiving Vst output 1 - 2 on plugin~ 1 2 and Vst output on plugin~ 3 4 and so on?

(I want to send the outputs of multiple multichannel vst's to the same receiving tracks. )
Unless something drastic changed (I'll get into that in a moment) this is not going to work. See, M4l is limited to what Live provides when it comes to routing audio and midi. While it might be possible to get the incoming audio by applying that routing scheme in Live you wouldn't be able to send it back because M4l can't route its own audio or midi.

Of course what you could do is put this onto a return track. Then disable the audio output for the midi track that contains your VST and add audio tracks which should be getting their audio from the individual channels of that vst plugin, check the I/O section to make that work. Set their monitoring to in and make sure that they use the sends-a to feed their output into your plugin.

That should roughly get you the same effect and it would be doable.

So about that drastic change... Max has two objects called send and receive which allow you to send messages without patch chords, even across different devices. However, last time I messed with M4l this feature was only supported within the same M4l device, so it didn't work across devices. Considering that Live 10 has an internal M4l engine I could imagine that this behavior has changed, but I simply don't know for sure (yet). (edit): I do now, look at DoubleUG's comment below :D).

This could be interesting because there's also send~ and receive~, and as their names suggest these allow you to send MSP signals in pretty much the same way as you'd send regular signals (as described above). Of course latency can become an issue but that's a different subject alltogether.

Maybe food for thought?
Last edited by ShelLuser on Thu Nov 14, 2019 3:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
With kind regards,

Peter

Using the 'Power' Trio: Live 10 Suite (+ Push & Max 8 ), Reason 10 and Maschine Mk3 (+ the ultimate Komplete 12).
Blog: SynthFan (under heavy construction!)


ShelLuser
Posts: 4030
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 10:26 pm
Location: Wageningen, Netherlands

Re: Is it possible to receive from multichannel vst's in m4l.

Post by ShelLuser » Thu Nov 14, 2019 3:31 pm

As I suspected: the addition of the M4l engine within Live opened up a load of new routing features 8) Thanks for the confirmation!
With kind regards,

Peter

Using the 'Power' Trio: Live 10 Suite (+ Push & Max 8 ), Reason 10 and Maschine Mk3 (+ the ultimate Komplete 12).
Blog: SynthFan (under heavy construction!)

thorangutang2
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2018 2:34 pm

Re: Is it possible to receive from multichannel vst's in m4l.

Post by thorangutang2 » Fri Nov 15, 2019 2:56 pm

Thank you for all replies so far!

If one takes a look at the audio routes m4l devices. For example the audio sender and audio receiver you will find that using the audio sender device you will be able to send to any input of a multichannel vst plugin by selecting something along these lines in the routing dialog for your chosen track: Input2/Input3_yourAmbisonicDecoder.vst.

However when using the audio receiver device you will only be presented with the three possible tap points pre fx, post fx and post mixer if you are attempting to receive audio from a track holding a multi channel plug in. Crucially it does not seem possible to access something along the line of Output 2/Input_3_yourambisonicEncoderr.vst.

In the IO section of any track you are able to select the outputs from a multichannel vst held on another track.

This leads me to conclude that M4l api does not in fact offer all the routing available in the IO section for each track. They seem to have omitted(forgotten?) this rather crucial point.

I have spent some time trying to solve this previously with M4l for Ableton 10 and the only way I have been able to do it is by wrapping the vst inside a device and then routing the outputs to the inputs of another multichannel plug or m4l device. I was never able to access the outputs of a multichannel plug.

Can anyone correct me on this assumption?

Thank you!

pottering
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Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2014 4:41 am

Re: Is it possible to receive from multichannel vst's in m4l.

Post by pottering » Fri Nov 15, 2019 4:25 pm

You don't even need M4L, you can use routing with External Instruments device, or between tracks.

https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques ... leton-live

https://music.tutsplus.com/tutorials/ho ... udio-14495

(External Instruments don't have to be in separate tracks, you can put them in Chains in s Instrument Racks, together with Kontakt itself. Then you can skip a stereo pair like 1/2, since Kontakt outputs it already.)

I don't know about Audio Routes, since it is new and I don't have any multichannel installed right now (I did test External Instruments with Kontakt in the past, and it works).

Of course, after you already routed with tracks or External Instruments (in chains, in a Rack), then you can use any routing M4L device (like Audio Routes), or even Sidechain Listen in Gate/Compressor, to route further.
Last edited by pottering on Fri Nov 15, 2019 8:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

thorangutang2
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Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2018 2:34 pm

Re: Is it possible to receive from multichannel vst's in m4l.

Post by thorangutang2 » Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:58 pm

I appreciate these tips but its not really what I need to do.

What I would like to achieve is to take for example the 32 channel output of a multichannel vst audio effect(not instrument) and send it to another 32 channel vst audio effect on another track, bypassing lives 2 channel limitation.

(its not really feasible to do this by adding 16 stereo tracks since I need to do it many times and the track count would become completely unmanageable very fast)

The send part works since M4L can access the input of a multichannel vst on any track in the session, the unanswered question is still if its possible to receive the output of multichannel vst's in M4L?

Thanks!

hydrogen
Posts: 60
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:01 am

Re: Is it possible to receive from multichannel vst's in m4l.

Post by hydrogen » Sun Dec 22, 2019 6:02 am

Thanks for posting this question. I am observing the audio routes in max for live are not reading the multichannel out from the vst.

one *hack* that i discovered is to use a rack. and place an external instrument on it. Route the midi to that instrument. Then the audio from will have a drop down with the VST outs.

I wonder if there is a method to get this same list of audio routes in Max4Live... Maybe emailing support?

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