Controlling external hardware with ableton´s Max4Live LFO

[Seta666]

I am trying to use ableton´s Max4Live LFOs to send midi CC´s to external hardware, but when I do it freezes those synths, it is like to many data is being sent to those synths and can not cope with it.

I happened me with Volca Drum and is happening also with Model:Cycles, with two LFOs knobs in M:C react with a delay, with 3 they just stop working.

If sending those CC´s via clip envelopes it works fine...could it be max4live lfo is sending too much midi data ? l

[gross9978]

I can confirm it works, I’ve used it to modulate several things including a model cycles. Not sure I can help with why yours isn’t though?

[Seta666]

It works, only thing if I send 3 LFOs same time M:C becomes unresponsive and with 4 does not respond at all...and just to 1 track

[chapelier fou]

Could be a bug on the M:C not handling duplicate ccs correctly. Worth contacting them.

[Seta666]

I had sae problem with volca drum in the past, is like the lfo send more midi data than those machines can handle...drawing envelopes ( which is kind of an lfo) works fine.

I will try to compare M4L lfo vs ableton envelope through midiox...

I forgot to say, windows 10 computer if that helps.

[hoffman2k]

This is an expected result. If we could send CC's at audio rates, we'd be doing it all the time.
You're running up against the speed limit of MIDI 1.0. The receiving hardware device starts buffering and dropping messages, so it seems like the hardware is running behind. But neither the connection or the hardware are made to work at such speeds.

MIDI 2.0 still won't run CC's at Audio Rates initially, but it is technically possible and will require specialized drivers/hardware.

[Seta666]

So ableton LFO sends midi at audio rates? I am talking about very slow modulating lfos, the way the synths behave makes me think you are right...
Thanks

[hoffman2k]

The speed of the LFO is irrelevant, because it is updating at a fixed rate. (Sample Rate)
You need to limit the output rate. The speedlim object is generally used for that.
Or you could skip using an audio controlled LFO and use one that works on a timer, which would be another way to limit the output rate.

[Seta666]

In ableton live there are 2 m4l lfos available, lfo and cv lfo. So, even if I understand it right even if you assign them to midi cc the refresh rste is the audio rate, in my case it would be 44.1khz, right?

I will try to find this speedlim object, do you happen to know if a timer lfo is already available?

Thank you for your help

[hoffman2k]

How exactly are you assigning these to CC's?
You can put the speedlim object between the output of the LFO and the input of the MIDIOUT.
I looked around, but couldn't find an MFL LFO that specifically states it's timer based.

[Seta666]

How exactly are you assigning these to CC's?

Via M4L devices like this one for volca drum or via m4l/ ext instrument macro combo

Should the speed limit be added just
before the lfo output in the lfo device or before the cc live dial input? Maybe before Volca drum m4l device output? Before the lfo output makes more sense to me...can you point me to a speedlim tutorial or such? The lfo is ableton's m4l lfo, in case you have it and can give it a look.

[hoffman2k]

It would need to be added to the Volca device in this case. And all other devices that output CC's in a similar way.
In these devices you'll find an object like MIDIOUT or CTLOUT. In most cases it'll probably be sufficient to put a [SPEEDLIM 5] object as the last object leading to MIDIOUT or CTLOUT. I used 5ms as an example, but you can tweak that number depending on your results.
For more info on the Speedlim object, right-click it and open the help file. It's an interactive demo.

[Seta666]

Looking at the Volca Drum editor each live.dial has a clout object, if I place the speedlim object between the dial and the clout it does the trick (easy to check it is working with a 500ms setting) , but this way I have to add a speedlim per dial.

If I place the speedlim object between midi in and midiout objects it does nothing. Is this the expected behaviour?

Anyway, after little testing maybe a speedlim per parameter is the best option as some parameters like pitch will benefit from higher refresh rate and for some others is not so important, like wave selection.

Thanks for your help; I should start watching m4l tutorials, such a powerful tool

[hoffman2k]

If I place the speedlim object between midi in and midiout objects it does nothing. Is this the expected behaviour?

Yeah. If an input is connected directly to an output, then it is the throughput. No need to put a speed limiter there or it will delay data coming from clips and controllers.

While it seems to make sense to modify the LFO, it's not as simple as adding a speedlim. You'd have to throw half of the patch out and still have it work. Might be less of a headache to start from scratch.

I'm glad this helped. While you're studying up on the subject, take a look at the LINE object. It'll allow you to set custom Glide times which might be fun to play with. Or make an LFO out of it