Tempo Phasing

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kingjulinan
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 1:19 pm

Tempo Phasing

Post by kingjulinan » Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:57 am

Hey everyone!

Is there any M4L device you know to set for each MIDI Track a different tempo?
Or do you know a technique just within Ableton without any M4L juice? Could be also a M4L sequencer but I'd prefer to work with the Ableton MIDI clips. Thanks a lot for the answer

IDEA:
- ABLETON TRANSPORT OUTPUT --> M4L DEVICE CHANGES TEMPO --> INSTRUMENT
- ... maybe you have another idea

Greetings and thanks a lot for the help,
Mi

S4racen
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Re: Tempo Phasing

Post by S4racen » Wed Mar 10, 2021 12:07 pm

"Is there any M4L device you know to set for each MIDI Track a different tempo?"

Thats completely against the paradigm of Live.

Cheers
D

Angstrom
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Re: Tempo Phasing

Post by Angstrom » Wed Mar 10, 2021 1:02 pm

kingjulinan wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:57 am

- ABLETON TRANSPORT OUTPUT --> M4L DEVICE CHANGES TEMPO --> INSTRUMENT
If you are talking about "Phase" in the Steve Reich sense then ... sort of.
In his pieces : music for clapping / piano phase ... etc. the loops are very slightly different lengths.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7P_9hDzG1i0


Of course we can see that as tempo, but we can also shave a little off the end of a loop to put it out of phase. The beat timing will go off (as the last beat will be short) but the effect is mostly equivalent.

You can do this to a degree by targeting the right loop brace and move it to the left by a fraction of a beat.
If loop A is 4.0.0 and Loop B is 3.3.35 then loop B will be "faster"

I think there's probably a Clip Operations demo patch which shows how to observe and target Loop End

schlam
Posts: 141
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2020 11:51 am

Re: Tempo Phasing

Post by schlam » Wed Mar 10, 2021 5:20 pm

There is a (commercial) device named "clocker" in maxforlive.com which do that but only for hardware devices. It uses imp.midi.

kingjulinan
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 1:19 pm

Re: Tempo Phasing

Post by kingjulinan » Thu Mar 11, 2021 10:03 am

S4racen wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 12:07 pm
"Is there any M4L device you know to set for each MIDI Track a different tempo?"

Thats completely against the paradigm of Live.

Cheers
D
so true hahah!

kingjulinan
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 1:19 pm

Re: Tempo Phasing

Post by kingjulinan » Thu Mar 11, 2021 10:24 am

Angstrom wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 1:02 pm
kingjulinan wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:57 am

- ABLETON TRANSPORT OUTPUT --> M4L DEVICE CHANGES TEMPO --> INSTRUMENT
If you are talking about "Phase" in the Steve Reich sense then ... sort of.
In his pieces : music for clapping / piano phase ... etc. the loops are very slightly different lengths.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7P_9hDzG1i0


Of course we can see that as tempo, but we can also shave a little off the end of a loop to put it out of phase. The beat timing will go off (as the last beat will be short) but the effect is mostly equivalent.

You can do this to a degree by targeting the right loop brace and move it to the left by a fraction of a beat.
If loop A is 4.0.0 and Loop B is 3.3.35 then loop B will be "faster"

I think there's probably a Clip Operations demo patch which shows how to observe and target Loop End
Hey!

Since over 13 years I'm using Ableton and Max, every freaking day but why the hell didn't I come up with this idea myself. I already played with odd loop lengths but when I had to think about different tempi, I simply overlooked it. Thanks for the help! Also: It's just for a mockup and your solution is perfect to test things.

M

kingjulinan
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 1:19 pm

Re: Tempo Phasing

Post by kingjulinan » Thu Mar 11, 2021 10:38 am

schlam wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 5:20 pm
There is a (commercial) device named "clocker" in maxforlive.com which do that but only for hardware devices. It uses imp.midi.
thx, going to check this!

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