Ok I'm new to sampling, can I do this?

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michhill8
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Ok I'm new to sampling, can I do this?

Post by michhill8 » Tue Dec 02, 2008 12:30 am

I have simpler for my sampler...

So my question is... can I split vocals and instrumentation? So could I take a horn line and get rid of the drums bass and vocals? Or am I stuck with them all? I'm aware that I can get them alone if they ARE alone on the track, but I'm curious as to how some of the producers out there can get vocal clips separate/ or bass lines separate etc.

Hope you all understand what I mean.

kraze
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Post by kraze » Tue Dec 02, 2008 2:31 am

Sampling is all about finding key bits and then playing something entirely new out of them. Make a bunch of good cuts and then use a keyboard, or even better pads to play them into "your own creation" and don't be afraid to use completly seperate songs and mash it all together.

Ezmyrelda
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Post by Ezmyrelda » Tue Dec 02, 2008 3:19 am

If you want to you can put an eq8 on the channel and try to eq out all of the other stuff.

Clearscreen
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Re: Ok I'm new to sampling, can I do this?

Post by Clearscreen » Tue Dec 02, 2008 3:38 am

michhill8 wrote:I have simpler for my sampler...

So my question is... can I split vocals and instrumentation? So could I take a horn line and get rid of the drums bass and vocals? Or am I stuck with them all? I'm aware that I can get them alone if they ARE alone on the track, but I'm curious as to how some of the producers out there can get vocal clips separate/ or bass lines separate etc.

Hope you all understand what I mean.
sorry, the short answer is 'no'... there is techniques that kind of work (have a google around - you can use phase cancellation sometimes) but they're not all that great in my opinion.
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michhill8
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Post by michhill8 » Tue Dec 02, 2008 4:51 am

I'm just so worried about sampling to make a great beat, but being caught and having to pay a fine. I plan on selling my beats... So today I actually went back and rerecorded a line that I sampled from Parliament with my own guitar. Even though I detuned it and slowed the beat down. Better to be safe than sorry I say. Do you guys get by like this? Or do you use samples?

Nick the Zombie
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Post by Nick the Zombie » Tue Dec 02, 2008 5:47 am

Ezmyrelda wrote:If you want to you can put an eq8 on the channel and try to eq out all of the other stuff.
The complexity of doing this is going to vary wildly depending on the source material. If you hear an instrument that sounds like it's in one frequency range, the truth is that it's probably got harmonics in other ranges as well. It's probably best to find other parts of the song where the instruments are isolated in the mix and just sample those.

kraze
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Post by kraze » Tue Dec 02, 2008 11:35 am

michhill8 wrote:I'm just so worried about sampling to make a great beat, but being caught and having to pay a fine. I plan on selling my beats... So today I actually went back and rerecorded a line that I sampled from Parliament with my own guitar. Even though I detuned it and slowed the beat down. Better to be safe than sorry I say. Do you guys get by like this? Or do you use samples?
You have to be clever about it and don't be too obvious, which in the end should just make the beat better and less gimmicky.

I'm going to use three different examples, both modern since that's the only thing that matters (you used to be able to get away with most stuff).

Kanye West has a few tracks that aren't paid for and he gets away with it for two reasons:
1) The publisher of said original track is either defunct or doesn't have any history at all in tracking down on sampling.
2) He doesn't use the obivous stuff. Now i'm not a fan of him by any means, but atleast he usually takes something from an outro/break or something and mix it up with a few cuts from other tracks. He also mostly doesn't use the hits from old records, which is the way he stays out of the publishers crosshair.

Justice (the french electro duo) has admitted that there's over 400 uncleared samples on their latest record. Now, this is something you can really hear when listening to it. They use short (not short enough to be considered microsampling though) samples from vinyl that are usually just a note and reapeat/timestretch it in time with the beat to add a certain vibe and feeling in a way that has been extremly successful for them. Now, even if all publishers in the world go and listen to that record they are very unlikely to be able to find something they are able to successfully sue over.

And now for the complete opposite, The Avalanches. This australian duo made a record in early 2000's with something like 118 cleared samples and it's even in the guinnes book of world records for being the record with most cleared samples ever. They were also the first people to ever get a madonna sample cleared, a bassline from the 80's.

So, how do you go safe?
*Cut shorter samples
*Use serveral tracks when making a sequence
*Don't pick anything obivous.

And as i said earlier, these also act as an insurance that we're going to get to see some actually interesting from you and not just some carbon copy of what's hot right now.

But about "separating instruments"... Sure, you can use a low or high-pass filter to shape your cuts a bit but the thing about sampling those old tracks is that you're stuck with the stereo file and therefore have to be creative to get something good going.
You were talking about a Parliament guitar-line and if it was a full line you're not really using sampling as you should. Sampling should be done to capture a certain vibe and feel, not as an excuse to not write your own hooks.

Edit:
I have to add a fourth example.
Now, there's this dude called Girl Talk. He uses obvious musical pieces and unmodified acapellas to make his songs. One song can include 6 different rappers, britney spears, 80's indie rock bands, 90's big beat techno, the final countdown and a bunch of known hooks. He hasn't cleared a sample in his life and is yet to face any sort of legal pressure. Now how does this work? Well, while he makes records out of all these songs he is still pretty much a DJ since he's not fucking around with anything and just basically join stuff together to cater to different audiences at the same time. Everyone has just let him off the hook since they acknowledge the fact that he's really no different from a DJ and that in the end the spotlight and promotional gain is placed on the original artists.[/u]

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Post by obeyendevor » Tue Dec 02, 2008 7:13 pm

^ nice post!

A tip for Justice type sounds, throw anything into simpler, and set the loop on and loop anything like 1-2%.
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Ezmyrelda
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Post by Ezmyrelda » Tue Dec 02, 2008 10:13 pm

Nick the Zombie wrote:
Ezmyrelda wrote:If you want to you can put an eq8 on the channel and try to eq out all of the other stuff.
The complexity of doing this is going to vary wildly depending on the source material. If you hear an instrument that sounds like it's in one frequency range, the truth is that it's probably got harmonics in other ranges as well. It's probably best to find other parts of the song where the instruments are isolated in the mix and just sample those.
Absolutely true! But sometimes its better than a kick in the teeth. And sometimes the part you want is right in the middle of a lot of other stuff. So you can either fiddle around with eqing, pass filters or other crap or you can say screw it and do something else..

michhill8
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Post by michhill8 » Tue Dec 02, 2008 11:34 pm

Just for fun... the guitar line I had sampled was really just 2 notes from the intro of Chocolate City tuned down.

Thanks for that great info.

Clearscreen
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Post by Clearscreen » Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:01 am

kraze wrote:I have to add a fourth example.
Now, there's this dude called Girl Talk. He uses obvious musical pieces and unmodified acapellas to make his songs. One song can include 6 different rappers, britney spears, 80's indie rock bands, 90's big beat techno, the final countdown and a bunch of known hooks. He hasn't cleared a sample in his life and is yet to face any sort of legal pressure. Now how does this work? Well, while he makes records out of all these songs he is still pretty much a DJ since he's not fucking around with anything and just basically join stuff together to cater to different audiences at the same time. Everyone has just let him off the hook since they acknowledge the fact that he's really no different from a DJ and that in the end the spotlight and promotional gain is placed on the original artists.[/u]
or it could just be he hasn't made enough money to be worth suing yet...
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Ezmyrelda
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Post by Ezmyrelda » Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:58 am

Clearscreen wrote:
kraze wrote:I have to add a fourth example.
Now, there's this dude called Girl Talk. He uses obvious musical pieces and unmodified acapellas to make his songs. One song can include 6 different rappers, britney spears, 80's indie rock bands, 90's big beat techno, the final countdown and a bunch of known hooks. He hasn't cleared a sample in his life and is yet to face any sort of legal pressure. Now how does this work? Well, while he makes records out of all these songs he is still pretty much a DJ since he's not fucking around with anything and just basically join stuff together to cater to different audiences at the same time. Everyone has just let him off the hook since they acknowledge the fact that he's really no different from a DJ and that in the end the spotlight and promotional gain is placed on the original artists.[/u]
or it could just be he hasn't made enough money to be worth suing yet...
Thats what I'm thinking is going on with GT.. But he is kinda charging for the album so he may get caught in that whole ruckus.

kraze
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Post by kraze » Sat Dec 06, 2008 5:14 pm

Ezmyrelda wrote:
Clearscreen wrote:
kraze wrote:I have to add a fourth example.
Now, there's this dude called Girl Talk. He uses obvious musical pieces and unmodified acapellas to make his songs. One song can include 6 different rappers, britney spears, 80's indie rock bands, 90's big beat techno, the final countdown and a bunch of known hooks. He hasn't cleared a sample in his life and is yet to face any sort of legal pressure. Now how does this work? Well, while he makes records out of all these songs he is still pretty much a DJ since he's not fucking around with anything and just basically join stuff together to cater to different audiences at the same time. Everyone has just let him off the hook since they acknowledge the fact that he's really no different from a DJ and that in the end the spotlight and promotional gain is placed on the original artists.[/u]
or it could just be he hasn't made enough money to be worth suing yet...
Thats what I'm thinking is going on with GT.. But he is kinda charging for the album so he may get caught in that whole ruckus.
Ehm... Dude gets pretty nice gurantees when touring, parties pay good cash. I was involved in a event he played and he got a pretty good sum, but it was only 25% of what he normally gets when headlining gigs in the states. I'm not saying he's loaded or anything, but he runs his own business so he doesn't have to pay "10%" (which turns into 30% of total without expenses counted in) to some shady manager and he can keep the money he makes from cd sales.. If you can play weekend parties to 500-800 people, you're getting nice gurantees. It's a totally different thing to the band scene.

kraze
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Post by kraze » Sat Dec 06, 2008 5:14 pm

Ezmyrelda wrote:
Clearscreen wrote:
kraze wrote:I have to add a fourth example.
Now, there's this dude called Girl Talk. He uses obvious musical pieces and unmodified acapellas to make his songs. One song can include 6 different rappers, britney spears, 80's indie rock bands, 90's big beat techno, the final countdown and a bunch of known hooks. He hasn't cleared a sample in his life and is yet to face any sort of legal pressure. Now how does this work? Well, while he makes records out of all these songs he is still pretty much a DJ since he's not fucking around with anything and just basically join stuff together to cater to different audiences at the same time. Everyone has just let him off the hook since they acknowledge the fact that he's really no different from a DJ and that in the end the spotlight and promotional gain is placed on the original artists.[/u]
or it could just be he hasn't made enough money to be worth suing yet...
Thats what I'm thinking is going on with GT.. But he is kinda charging for the album so he may get caught in that whole ruckus.
Ehm... Dude gets pretty nice gurantees when touring, parties pay good cash. I was involved in a event he played and he got a pretty good sum, but it was only 25% of what he normally gets when headlining gigs in the states. I'm not saying he's loaded or anything, but he runs his own business so he doesn't have to pay "10%" (which turns into 30% of total without expenses counted in) to some shady manager and he can keep the money he makes from cd sales.. If you can play weekend parties to 500-800 people, you're getting nice gurantees. It's a totally different thing to the band scene.

michhill8
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Post by michhill8 » Thu Dec 11, 2008 12:34 am

hmm ok, its been awhile since I've come back to this thread.

Nice info all, but I have another question about sampling.

With simpler (in live Lite) can I assign each key a different sample?? Basically can I turn my MIDI keyboard into an Akai sampler (or something along those lines)??

THanks in advance.

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