Automatic db limiter?

Share your Ableton Live secrets here
bharrower
Posts: 56
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2007 1:04 pm

Post by bharrower » Thu Dec 04, 2008 10:18 pm

Thanks for all the terrific feedback guys.

What is the conclusion here then? Is there one?

Basically when I am mixing 2 records together sometimes one is quieter or louder than the other. So, as well as making sure the mix doesn't sound drastically different by ear, and also looking at the the db levels on the monitor, I wondered if there was any way to automatically do this in ableton - just to make things more accurate?

B.

Dexes
Posts: 427
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 10:45 pm
Location: Vienna / AT

Post by Dexes » Fri Dec 05, 2008 12:07 am

Ive got 2 ideas to this.

1) Spend hours going through your music collection and set the gain in the clip window so they all fit & save (this doesn't change the file, it creates an info file for live to read that gives it the info you set, warp markers, etc.

2) dont know if this works, since I still DJ the old way with records, decks & mixer...but could it be possible to route the audio from the track in which the clip is through another audio track, using the volume fader of the original track as a gain control & the fader of second track as a line fader?

Tarekith
Posts: 17365
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 11:46 pm
Location: Ableton Forum Administrator
Contact:

Post by Tarekith » Fri Dec 05, 2008 1:33 am

http://tarekith.com/assets/Leveling.html

Just gotta spend the time making sure they're all close in volume on your own, there is no "automatic" way of doing this without seriously degrading your audio.

bharrower
Posts: 56
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2007 1:04 pm

Post by bharrower » Fri Dec 05, 2008 12:24 pm

levimoniz wrote:
In tandem with limiting LLC should keep everything in check & relatively the same volume.
Thanks for the advice but what do you mean LLC?
B.

bharrower
Posts: 56
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2007 1:04 pm

Post by bharrower » Fri Dec 05, 2008 12:35 pm

Tarekith wrote:http://tarekith.com/assets/Leveling.html

Just gotta spend the time making sure they're all close in volume on your own, there is no "automatic" way of doing this without seriously degrading your audio.
Hi Tarekith,

I've checked our tutorials out and at one point did try to set the volume of clip as I was going along but even then I found the results were inaccurate.

I think the sort of thing I had in mind is what levimoniz is talking about. Is there such a thing?

Cheers

B.

bharrower
Posts: 56
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2007 1:04 pm

Post by bharrower » Fri Dec 05, 2008 12:56 pm

bharrower wrote:
levimoniz wrote:
In tandem with limiting LLC should keep everything in check & relatively the same volume.
Thanks for the advice but what do you mean LLC?
B.
Apologies for my stupidity...I have just realised what you meant.
B.

Tarekith
Posts: 17365
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 11:46 pm
Location: Ableton Forum Administrator
Contact:

Post by Tarekith » Fri Dec 05, 2008 3:52 pm

bharrower wrote:
Tarekith wrote:http://tarekith.com/assets/Leveling.html

Just gotta spend the time making sure they're all close in volume on your own, there is no "automatic" way of doing this without seriously degrading your audio.
Hi Tarekith,

I've checked our tutorials out and at one point did try to set the volume of clip as I was going along but even then I found the results were inaccurate.

I think the sort of thing I had in mind is what levimoniz is talking about. Is there such a thing?

Cheers

B.
I just don't think any form of dynamic alteration ala LLC or limiting is the right away to approach the situation to be honest. Esepcially since most dance music has tiny amounts of dynamic range already, even the smallest bits of processing are going to have a negative impact on the audio quality. Even if you were to use those tools, it's not an automatic process IMO, it'll still take a lot of fiddling to find something that fits all tunes. I still think that just adjusting the clip volumes is the cleanest and best way to approach this. Do it by ear if you have to, there's no reason you can't get the results close ot the same volume.

Da hand
Posts: 1623
Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2003 8:38 pm
Location: Montreal, Canada

Post by Da hand » Fri Dec 05, 2008 5:35 pm

I agree with Tarekith.

You may use a limiter to make sure that some stray peaks are not going through, but for RMS levels it is a different story.

A big part of DJing is actually mixing the tracks. In other words, bringing in the volume of one track or its elements, fading out another. This delicate touch is what constitutes a smooth mix and gives you control over how all the elements work in the mix. Sometimes you want a track to play lower - especially when you are playing it on top of another track - and then later, the same track, to play at full volume. Meters serve as guides for this, but in the end it is your ears that will determine the best results.

So to this end, you cannot really have automatic RMS levels adjustment on the master mix. As soon as you would have any level appear, the automatic level adjuster would boost the levels to match the track already playing - giving you absolutely no control over the mix.

To adjust the volumes of individual songs to the same levels before you start mixing them, you just have to adjust it by ear and you can use the waveform representation (or the fader volume if your track faders are set to the same level) as a guide . The best time to do this is before your set, but you can do this while you are mixing by listening to the track through the Cue function.

Post Reply