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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 11:46 pm 

Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 11:46 pm
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Location: Ableton Forum Administrator
Live has always (well, since version 6) had a pick up mode for midi controls.

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 Post subject: Re: APC 40 FAQs, features and questions
PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 11:49 pm 

Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2004 2:15 pm
Posts: 11646
Location: Denmark
jonny72 wrote:
Could you confirm if Akai will be shafting people in the UK with the price as well, or if the shafting is just limited to people in Euro countries?
Oh, this'll be good - it's the old classic; "Have you stopped cheating on your wife?", hehe. Can't be answered that question, can it?


Jesse, it's great that you're doing this - I'm sorry I missed you in Berlin, but Jan/Dom/Amo gave me the rundown of the unit and it is KILLER! '09 is going to be HUGE!
Great job, guys.

Now on to finding out which AKAI execs to bribe into coughing up some APCs, yo. :-D


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 12:48 am 

Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2007 6:39 pm
Posts: 23307
Tone Deft wrote:
watch here, just posted
http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?t=105285

you need Live 8 with the Akai update that comes with the APC.


So the APC and Live 8 don't come out until mid to late April. Then toss in another 3 or 4 months of bug fixing. So we're talking maybe July or August before this combo can be trusted. Not hatin', just sayin'.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 12:58 am 

Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2005 9:06 pm
Posts: 7471
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands
Why is it so much more expensive in Europe? 1 Euro almost equals $1.30
Fucking insane! :evil: :evil: :evil:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 1:02 am 

Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:19 pm
Posts: 23565
Location: SF, CA
beats me wrote:
Tone Deft wrote:
watch here, just posted
http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?t=105285

you need Live 8 with the Akai update that comes with the APC.


So the APC and Live 8 don't come out until mid to late April. Then toss in another 3 or 4 months of bug fixing. So we're talking maybe July or August before this combo can be trusted. Not hatin', just sayin'.

it's a completely dead simple implementation, it only has to send midi notes and CC#s. I'll bet you the cost of one it works on day 1. ;)

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I agree with all of this. I'm just bored of writing "its music, just listen and trust your judgement"


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 1:14 am 

Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2007 6:39 pm
Posts: 23307
Tone Deft wrote:
beats me wrote:
Tone Deft wrote:
watch here, just posted
http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?t=105285

you need Live 8 with the Akai update that comes with the APC.


So the APC and Live 8 don't come out until mid to late April. Then toss in another 3 or 4 months of bug fixing. So we're talking maybe July or August before this combo can be trusted. Not hatin', just sayin'.

it's a completely dead simple implementation, it only has to send midi notes and CC#s. I'll bet you the cost of one it works on day 1. ;)


OK, but aren't you saying it works with Live 8 (by default) and not 7? I'm not saying the controller will be buggy but that Live 8 will be, again not hatin', but as consumers we just accept that software is released in less than stable working order while we all test it, and I also realize this isn't completely software developers' fault because they don't have access to every single computer on the face of the earth. As a Mac user I should feel a little more confident but I'm not.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 1:17 am 

Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2005 2:48 pm
Posts: 265
Location: Philadelphia
In one of the NAMM videos, somebody at AKAI proudly mentions a secret handshake between Live and the APC. But other reports seem to indicate that this unit just sends out MIDI. Does the device or Live send anything other than MIDI signals?

The APC Sends simple midi messages, and most of the banking and Session View control is handled internally in Live. Connecting another controller and selecting the APC40 preset will not work, even if that controller sends the same MIDI messages.

Will this secret handshake prevent us from turning a Monome + BCR into an APC?

Yes.

First up, the triggers, I understand they are not velocity sensitive which I think is perfect for triggering clips, what is the action like though are they like pads or buttons, is there a button like up-down motion or not.

I could describe this, but you'll have to check it out for yourself. They are similar to an Akai XR20.

Secondly, how can anybody justify $399 and €449, €449 is equal to $579.
It makes no sense whatsoever ?


Akai sets the pricing, sorry it doesn't meet your needs. I'll pass on your thoughts.

So is there an easy editor for the controller mappings?

No, if you want to change the default mapping you'll need to mess around under the hood with Max for Live.

Is there a possibility that there is going to be an RGB version later?


This is the first dedicated controller for Live's Session View and the one we are supporting and focusing on for the time being, though it's likely not the last. Please feel free to add controller ideas + suggestions to this thread. I would love to see controllers for all different needs, with RGB, or better clip names. But we need to balance cost and development time for these sorts of things. We are still a small company -- and so is Akai Professional (not to be confused with the Japanese Akai, from which is split many years ago).

Will it be possible to use the APC with Live 7 out of the box with default mapping intact, or will I have to purchase live 8 to use the APC.

We'll have a point release update for Live 7 with support for the APC40 in Live's preferences, Live 8 will work with the APC40 when it is released.

The faders are not motorized. How does that work if you bank through a few channels ?

As motorized faders were not possible at this pricing, these will follow the takeover mode (see 23.1.3 Takeover Mode in the manual for more info).

Could you confirm if Akai will be shafting people in the UK with the price as well, or if the shafting is just limited to people in Euro countries?

It's nobody's intention to shaft anyone -- but various distribution and dealer costs affect how products like this are priced internationally. I'm not sure of the UK pricing but will post here when I know.

So the APC and Live 8 don't come out until mid to late April. Then toss in another 3 or 4 months of bug fixing. So we're talking maybe July or August before this combo can be trusted. Not hatin', just sayin'.

It seems to be working just fine in 7 and 8 for me already, we're testing hard and will fix any problems that arise as soon as we can. The APC40 has simple firmware that sends simple MIDI messages, so we are able to quickly jump on any problems with a software update.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 1:21 am 

Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2005 2:48 pm
Posts: 265
Location: Philadelphia
One more thing: mad props to Jan Buchholz, who did the instant mapping program for the APC40 (and all controllers we have instant mapping for) and Jan, Amaury Groc and Friedemann Schautz, the team who helped determine the feature set.

On Akai Professional's side, Glen Darcey, Alex Souppa and Dan Gill were our sparring partners and we owe much of the work and design to them and their team.
Jesse

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 1:23 am 

Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:19 pm
Posts: 23565
Location: SF, CA
beats me wrote:
OK, but aren't you saying it works with Live 8 (by default) and not 7?

at the top of the previous page I made that mistake, at the bottom I changed it after seeing an L7 APC feature chart.

http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?p=826589#826589


Quote:
I'm not saying the controller will be buggy but that Live 8 will be,

sure, goes without saying, just ask Timur how stable Live is. for me it's fine (midi sync aside!!!!), for him, not so great.


Quote:
again not hatin', but as consumers we just accept that software is released in less than stable working order while we all test it, and I also realize this isn't completely software developers' fault because they don't have access to every single computer on the face of the earth.

naturally. once the hype wears down people will think more long term, I'm still in the honeymoon period.

my feeling is that the APC is probably as taxing on the CPU as doing a regular old school midi map, the APC itself should be pretty drama free. of course this is all rampant speculation.

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oddstep wrote:
I agree with all of this. I'm just bored of writing "its music, just listen and trust your judgement"


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 1:30 am 

Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2007 6:39 pm
Posts: 23307
Jesse wrote:
So the APC and Live 8 don't come out until mid to late April. Then toss in another 3 or 4 months of bug fixing. So we're talking maybe July or August before this combo can be trusted. Not hatin', just sayin'.

It seems to be working just fine in 7 and 8 for me already, we're testing hard and will fix any problems that arise as soon as we can. The APC40 has simple firmware that sends simple MIDI messages, so we are able to quickly jump on any problems with a software update.


Well that shut me the hell up :wink:

I was under the impression you HAD to have Live 8, which I do plan to get too, but I don't expect to trust it for a couple updates. I can deal with waiting for updates but it would be super annoying to have this pretty controller and not being able to do anything until Ableton made Live work perfectly on my system.

Good news.

Oh, and thanks Tone Deft too for clearing that up. I was getting the "needs Live 8" impression from one of your posts, but I wasn't really sure who/what you were responding to with the rapid postings on this thread. I was just going with it.

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Last edited by beats me on Wed Jan 21, 2009 1:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 1:31 am 

Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2005 2:48 pm
Posts: 265
Location: Philadelphia
How many tracks/scenes can I navigate to?

With the banking buttons, you can move around a 64 track by 125 scene grid. i.e. when you press the shift button, and press the second button down in the second row, you'd be move the ring to tracks 9-16 and scenes 6-10. The scene buttons 1-5 move you to extra banks of scenes, i.e. scene 1 button lets you select 5 banks of scenes from 1-25, scene button 2 brings up 5 more banks of scenes from 26-50, and so on. You can go beyond this by sequentially moving with the arrow keys.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 1:43 am 

Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2007 2:03 pm
Posts: 2754
Location: Dublin
Hey Jesse

It's great to see someone from AKAI Pro answering our questions. Wether or not you're doing it in "an official capacity", this is the kind of personal touch that will win you favour in the Ableton community.

Re pads/buttons
Quote:
I could describe this, but you'll have to check it out for yourself. They are similar to an Akai XR20.

That is great news. I think.
Most people would describe the XR20 triggers as "pads" because they will have a somewhat rubbery (not hard plasticy) feel. Perhaps you can confirm this is the case.

Quote:
It's nobody's intention to shaft anyone -- but various distribution and dealer costs affect how products like this are priced internationally. I'm not sure of the UK pricing but will post here when I know.

Digital Village are taking pre-prders for £399 UK sterling. Regardless of shipping/distribution. Someone is obviously making quite a lot extra along the chain from USA to UK distributer/shop to the consumer.
At the current price point, I think "shafted" is a fair description of the European customer experience with many American companys including Apple and AKAI Pro. Getting a relative to ship a unit over would work out much cheaper, unfortunatly.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 1:52 am 

Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2005 2:48 pm
Posts: 265
Location: Philadelphia
Most people would describe the XR20 triggers as "pads" because they will have a somewhat rubbery (not hard plasticy) feel. Perhaps you can confirm this is the case.

Confirmed. They are somewhat rubbery like the XR20 pads.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:03 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2007 2:43 pm
Posts: 790
Jesse wrote:

Is there a possibility that there is going to be an RGB version later?


This is the first dedicated controller for Live's Session View and the one we are supporting and focusing on for the time being, though it's likely not the last. Please feel free to add controller ideas + suggestions to this thread. I would love to see controllers for all different needs, with RGB, or better clip names. But we need to balance cost and development time for these sorts of things. We are still a small company -- and so is Akai Professional (not to be confused with the Japanese Akai, from which is split many years ago).


Personally I'd like to see a more DJ orientated controller, something with dedicated EQ's, kill switches (or buttons), crossfader type selection and so on. Probably with just 3 or at most 4 tracks and a design / size which would fit next to the APC40.

A vinyl emulation style controller would be nice as well, something along the lines of the top end Pioneer CD deck rather than a full vinyl platter. It might sound a bit stupid for use with Live but it would have benefits - a far better way of nudging audio and scratching for example and I'm sure there are plenty of other uses people could put it to as well.

Jesse wrote:
Could you confirm if Akai will be shafting people in the UK with the price as well, or if the shafting is just limited to people in Euro countries?

It's nobody's intention to shaft anyone -- but various distribution and dealer costs affect how products like this are priced internationally. I'm not sure of the UK pricing but will post here when I know.


You've caught me off guard, I never thought you'd reply to that!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:27 am 

Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2007 2:03 pm
Posts: 2754
Location: Dublin
Jesse wrote:
Confirmed. They are somewhat rubbery like the XR20 pads.

Superb.

If you get a chance at some point, I have one more query.

What is the purpose of the three "holes" on the sides?
For rack mounting?
Will the "wings" be removable?


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