Looping audio without release cutoff. Possible?

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longjohns
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Re: Looping audio without release cutoff. Possible?

Post by longjohns » Tue May 19, 2009 2:55 pm

also if you freeze and flatten track it will create the loop tails. then you can grab those parts and use them elsewhere

sleeping
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Joined: Sat May 16, 2009 3:40 am

Re: Looping audio without release cutoff. Possible?

Post by sleeping » Tue May 19, 2009 9:01 pm

We may be talking about different things, or just not quite being clear.

electropoet, your workaround involves using two loops- one which starts "cleanly," & one which starts with the fx tail (from the end) audible at the start. I am totally familiar with this technique & was using it as my workaround on Akai samplers, before I got the A5000.

In Ableton, is there a way to do this within one clip? That's what was great about the Yamaha. You could program a sample's loop end point BEFORE the full tail, then adjust how much "release" you wanted to mix into the loop's start. For live performance obviously there is a lot more flexibility to have one loop do what you want, rather than juggling 2 loops. If there's a way to set it up as one clip that would work I think. (Pls remember I am new to this program.)

I'm not making demands, just surprised. I have been working with loops & MIDI for a long time, & had heard that Live would be right up my alley. So I didn't expect this would be a problem.

Maybe it just can't be done at this time. I realize it's not an easy task, but in these days of multi-processors and lots of RAM, I don't see why not.

electropoet
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Re: Looping audio without release cutoff. Possible?

Post by electropoet » Wed May 20, 2009 4:00 am

yes...we are kind of on different wave lengths. Honestly...I record and play loops live with ableton. I don't use prerecorded loops in any way...so...there is the major discrepency...i automatically assumed the OP and you were talking about looping in the live realm...i.e. with live instruments like guitar. I think I see what your talking about now...in which case I can't help as I don't work in that way...

but...

I'm still not sure why the two loop technique wouldn't work (other than for simplicity). If your djing/playing electronic based music with live...all you really need is for the loop to sound good as it continues. The intro loop isn't a huge deal and it can often be buried, filtered, etc. The bottom line is that the A5000 is a sampler...live is not a sampler...it acts like one...but it really isn't...you're suggesting that every clip you record should have that ability to alter envelopes, lfo's, filters, etc...not at all feasible...think about the computer power that would take if you had ton's of clips...don't get me wrong...it might be awesome in some ways...but I don't think were at that point yet...plus it could be cumbersome and quite probably gum up the simplicity of the interface. I'm not trying to make excuses...but the work-arounds seem like they suffice...plus you can always throw samples that don't seemlessly loop into the sampler or just us two samples. Or you could have the sample in the clip recorded dry...and add bus effects which always makes samples flow better. I don't know. Just a few thoughts...and certainly...with ableton basically being a hard disk recorder that acts like a sampler...it certainly says something about how cool the old akai and yamaha hardware samplers were. Roland had some cool samplers as well...but a hell of a lot more expensive. As they say...your mileage may vary.

sleeping
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Joined: Sat May 16, 2009 3:40 am

Re: Looping audio without release cutoff. Possible?

Post by sleeping » Wed May 20, 2009 6:02 am

One quick clarification here: a hardware sampler is a hard disk recorder. It records digital audio on a hard drive. The old rackmount samplers were basically specialized computers, which became more and more obvious--- the most recent ones (A5000, Akai Z8, etc) used the same RAM & hard drives as PCs, you could hook a mouse & monitor to them etc.

But I'm not trying to debate semantics OR say that using ancient rackmount gear is better than Ableton. I only brought up the A5000 to point out that the feature I want was available 10 years ago.

Im not a DJ, I create all my own loops (after learning about copyright law while learning about sampling, I just stopped bothering with using anything recorded by somebody else.) I am trying to use Live as a way to play backing tracks for performances- taking chunks of my songs as Live clips, building an organic mix of them (rather than the all-too-common "live" show these days where someone pushes play on a computer & sings along with it.) I want to be able to play these loops cleanly (no weird tails at the beginning) but to allow for the overhangs- I think I can use your idea, electropoet, slightly modified:
-Set up the loop as desired, on hardware if necessary (my A5000 is gone, but not the MPC!)
-Record twice the desired loop length.
-In ableton, set up the loop over the last half of the clip.

In fact, I wish I'd realized all this before recording a bunch of clips for use in Live- now I think I'll have to go back and record them again, this time twice as long.

That's a little annoying, and so is having to bounce out to hardware every time this comes up in the future. Plus all the files will be twice as big...But for the way I use loopers its essential. And so far Live has enough going for it that I'll stick with it & hope for an update to add the feature.

Thanks electropoet- I will try the above-mentioned technique, see how it goes. Any other suggestions welcome.

longjohns
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Location: seattle

Re: Looping audio without release cutoff. Possible?

Post by longjohns » Wed May 20, 2009 2:02 pm

now i'm confused. if you have recorded a one bar, exact length, clip into ableton... then where is the tail coming from which you want to crossfade?

or have you recorded 5 beats worth into ableton?

sleeping
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Joined: Sat May 16, 2009 3:40 am

Re: Looping audio without release cutoff. Possible?

Post by sleeping » Wed May 20, 2009 6:47 pm

The problem I have is, trying to record something that's longer than 4 bars (due to a reverb tail, a floor tom, or a pick-up note that lasts into what would be the 5th or 6th bar for example.) I want the clip to be a straight 4 bars, but I also want to preserve the overhanging sound at the end & have it overlap when the clip loops back to the start.

When I record the entire chunk, it seems like Ableton gets confused by the extra length. It miscalculates the true tempo, then when I play the clip in a session set to the "right" tempo, it warps the loop & screws up the timing.

The only solution so far seems to be to set the loop up outside of Live, then record it from the start, allowing it to loop at least once. Import the clip into Live, then set the clip to loop on the last half of the audio file. That way, when the clip is launched in Ableton, you'll hear the tail overlapping the start ONLY when it loops.

Unfortunately, I've been checking out this solution & it still has a weakness (maybe there's a workaround for this too) When you stop the clip, it cuts off the tail.

Maybe with more experience I can fix this. I am still learning how to adjust warp markers etc & hopefully there's a way.

gzifcak
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Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 11:05 pm

Re: Looping audio without release cutoff. Possible?

Post by gzifcak » Wed May 20, 2009 6:58 pm

forgive me if these tips are obvious:

- follow actions. if you use 2 clips to do it, you can have the first clip automatically transition to the second clip as it ends.

- warping. you can override how live interprets the file by placing and moving your own warp markers. very quick (compared to going back and setting up the loop in hardware) once you learn how to do it.

- bouncing. if you simply need to double the length of the loop, you can record it to a second track, letting it loop once. this may only apply if you're adding the effects within ableton i guess.
sleeping wrote: Unfortunately, I've been checking out this solution & it still has a weakness (maybe there's a workaround for this too) When you stop the clip, it cuts off the tail.
this could probably be done with follow actions as well, though i agree that there should be separate start, loop and end points.

sleeping
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat May 16, 2009 3:40 am

Re: Looping audio without release cutoff. Possible?

Post by sleeping » Thu May 21, 2009 8:08 am

Probably obvious to more exp. users, but very useful esp follow actions. I will check it out, thanks

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