Ableton Live with SSD Drives? Fast and secure files theory

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Phrenetic
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Ableton Live with SSD Drives? Fast and secure files theory

Post by Phrenetic » Fri Jun 19, 2009 5:48 pm

Hey fellow ableton peoples

Aft a bit of research I am thinking of buying 2 solid state drives http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid-state_drive for My PC studio environment and my laptop for live use.

I figure having super fast reads for samples on my pc would be a plus BUT the the fact that SSD can last over 50 years (apparently). So my plan is to have a read only-ish SSD drive for all my samples so i dont have to worry.

Is anyone doing this/will recommend doing this? I know SSD's suck at little writes but what about reads?

Harris.Andrew
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Re: Ableton Live with SSD Drives? Fast and secure files theory

Post by Harris.Andrew » Wed Jul 01, 2009 5:15 am

I haven't seen SSD tested with Live but I've seen what it can do for some other highly memory-intensive apps where disk paging happens a lot - it's REAL good. Live has some brains behind its memory management that might alter how stunning SSD would be, but I'm sure there would be improvement.

Does anyone have any experience with SSD + Live? It's a good question to be asking.

davepermen
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Re: Ableton Live with SSD Drives? Fast and secure files theory

Post by davepermen » Wed Jul 01, 2009 4:51 pm

I have got an ssd about 3/4 years ago, and since then replaced all my hdd's save the homeserver with ssds. they are awesome. I've now switched on my laptop to the intel x18-m (same as x25-m but other size, as i have a 12" notebook).

I know it makes a huge difference when installing ableton, and using your os/apps in general. but obviously, with all my operators and stuff, i'm more cpu dependent anyways :)
http://davepermen.net my tiny webpage, including link to bandcamp.

fisto
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Re: Ableton Live with SSD Drives? Fast and secure files theory

Post by fisto » Thu Jul 02, 2009 9:13 am

SSDs are really cool with live. I've posted about this a few days ago but no one replied. I have a verbatim ssd 32 GB for the expresscard slot in the laptop, because I had those playback dropouts in large Projects, because my internal drive was too slow. Now the projects load really faster (when you start them from the ssd.drive) and there are no dropouts (red Ds) even with 30+ tracks, and Live is going more stable and faster too.
I would really recommend using ssd-drives, it really mekes Live faster. But look for a proper read-speed.
The Verbatim has 120MB/s read and 30MB/s write. Works really good!!You can also direct the Decoding-Cache and the virtual Windows-Memory to the SSD drive, which makes your machine even faster.
Cheers

hanumesh
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Re: Ableton Live with SSD Drives? Fast and secure files theory

Post by hanumesh » Fri Jul 03, 2009 9:08 pm

Could you explain how to direct the Decoding-Cache and the virtual Windows-Memory to the SSD drive? Maybe, could you also explain what function the decoding cache and virtual windows memory have while using Ableton Live?

Harris.Andrew
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Re: Ableton Live with SSD Drives? Fast and secure files theory

Post by Harris.Andrew » Sat Jul 04, 2009 6:01 am

Memory on a computer is sort of pyramid shaped - there's a very small amount (well, in modern terms) that's very close to the CPU, then RAM, then the hard drive. In order for e.g. samples to be quickly accessible to Live, or various graphic elements quickly accessible to a windowed operating system - this data should be in RAM. It's quickly accessible there, and data can be restructured there in ways programs need to do.

The amount of RAM on a system could be a hard limit on how many programs / data a computer could handle, but operating systems have long used a trick of saving chunks of RAM to hard disk when needed. This is virtual memory, which is pretty seamlessly integrated at a very fundamental level for an operating system. There's a trade-off in that using virtual memory means reading and writing from the hard drive, which is slow relative to RAM. With an SSD drive, reading from the hard drive is really fast, in fact an SSD drive technically is much more like RAM than a hard disk.

So in situations where the amount of memory Live plus the operating system plus whatever else is running is greater than the amount of RAM available, virtual memory is used; SSD makes using virtual memory faster. I'm not sure where it is on Windows but there is guaranteed to be a configuration tool that more or less just asks what drive to use for virtual memory.

The decoding cache in Live is a little like virtual memory, it's putting data that is needed only while running Live (and not off-line, e.g. when Live loads an mp3 it's really converting it to a .wav) on the hard disk, and again an SSD drive, because it reads faster than traditional hard drives, will offer speed and latency increases. It is configurable under Live preferences.

Hope this makes sense and isn't info overload :D

wehkah
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Re: Ableton Live with SSD Drives? Fast and secure files theory

Post by wehkah » Sat Jul 04, 2009 1:53 pm

SSD drives are like USB Flash Drives. If Vista or Win7 is installed you can use the "ReadyBoost" option with a USB Stick and save a lot of money ;) .

For the daily work & usage as systemdisc or filestorage, an SSD drive is a bad option, i think. If anybody needs a stable/redundant and fast system a RAID is the best solution at this time.

peace&sun
T
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celibacyclub
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Re: Ableton Live with SSD Drives? Fast and secure files theory

Post by celibacyclub » Sat Jul 04, 2009 2:38 pm

ssd drives actually have a sorter lifespan than traditional drives, they cant write data in the same place as often, as they slowly degrade with each write. manufacturers are trying to improve this lifespan but other technologies other than flash memory are being researched that should

they can be amazingly fast though, unlike most all usb sticks, they can have data bandwidth that exceeds all other memory types, EVEN RAM. you can get special drives that use ram chips as an ssd, though in performance tests these drives are not quite as fast as the fastest ssd drives.

Harris.Andrew
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Re: Ableton Live with SSD Drives? Fast and secure files theory

Post by Harris.Andrew » Sat Jul 04, 2009 5:36 pm

wehkah wrote:SSD drives are like USB Flash Drives. If Vista or Win7 is installed you can use the "ReadyBoost" option with a USB Stick and save a lot of money ;) .

For the daily work & usage as systemdisc or filestorage, an SSD drive is a bad option, i think. If anybody needs a stable/redundant and fast system a RAID is the best solution at this time.

peace&sun
T
Except a RAID can't fit in notebook? Something like http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/int ... ,2158.html is pretty amazing, and has a much higher bandwidth than USB 2.0. The latest generation of SSD is looking really promising, quite a bit different than SSDs even two years ago.

wehkah
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Re: Ableton Live with SSD Drives? Fast and secure files theory

Post by wehkah » Sat Jul 04, 2009 7:53 pm

Yes thats right but the pricing is too much. here is an german information with benchmark:

http://www.computerbase.de/news/hardwar ... x25-e_ssd/

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