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 Post subject: Using a Limiter for performance
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 7:45 am 

Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 11:58 am
Posts: 79
what is the most common effect to master a live song? what kind of Limiter & what parameters
i should be aware of?

Tx


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 Post subject: Re: Using a Limiter for performance
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:27 am 

Joined: Wed May 28, 2008 8:54 am
Posts: 76
I'm also very interested in this question... I know a limiter allows for the track to be more "balanced" overall, bringing up the quieter parts in the track, but I'm not really sure how they are used, or which limiter to use for that matter... >_<

Help!

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 Post subject: Re: Using a Limiter for performance
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:54 am 

Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 10:05 pm
Posts: 104
Mike, your are thinking of a Compressor!
A limiter limits the signal, preventing it from clipping.
I allways have one on my master bus, it used to be an external one, but now I use the live8 limiter, works great!

In a live sittuation it could be handy on channels with a lot of dynamic input, a lot of volume changes. Those channels tend to clip easily and really need a limiter.
But for live shows, how can you master that ?? Mastering happens after the mixing stage, and the output of the mixer just goes straight into the room, so how do you apply mastering there ??

The most logical to me would be to put a compressor on the kick and the bass, to make them sound full.


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 Post subject: Re: Using a Limiter for performance
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 4:02 pm 

Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 11:58 am
Posts: 79
my goal is to avoid clipping! i'm using early version of Live 7, what
Live's Limiter i should apply on the Master Bus then? what parameters i should touch? is it automatic?
tx


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 Post subject: Re: Using a Limiter for performance
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 4:55 pm 

Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2008 12:55 am
Posts: 155
When performing w/ Live one should use a limiter on the master channel as a last ditch effort to prevent clipping. Personally, I use the free W1 limiter: it outputs the exact same sound as the Waves L1 as it is a clone of the L1.


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 Post subject: Re: Using a Limiter for performance
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 5:03 pm 

Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2009 11:16 pm
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Location: London
When performing live, turn everything down in Ableton and raise the volume up on the desk!

You don't need anything close to clipping whatsoever and using dynamics processing on the master is just lazy and wasting CPU.

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 Post subject: Re: Using a Limiter for performance
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:49 pm 

Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:06 am
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you will need a limiter if you are using some sort of feed back delay on the send channels

otherwise you are going to kill the audience.

thats not lazy, thats considerate.

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 Post subject: Re: Using a Limiter for performance
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 11:01 pm 

Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2009 11:16 pm
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Location: London
hurlingdervish wrote:
you will need a limiter if you are using some sort of feed back delay on the send channels

otherwise you are going to kill the audience.

thats not lazy, thats considerate.


That's controlling individual sounds though, but as a whole, leave the dynamics in.

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 Post subject: Re: Using a Limiter for performance
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 2:18 am 

Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2008 4:06 am
Posts: 15
Location: taiwan
Using a compressor/limiter on the mixbus/master fader is a very good way to put a final balance on a mix especially when incorprating live instruments. I use Live 6 as my fx rack for live shows in conjunction with my firewire equipped Onyx mixer, mixing live and tracking bands simultaneously every week. It is a great set-up. Some compression on the master fader ties all the channels together really nicely.
The OP might try a little light compression (1.5 or less) with the threshold about 5 or 6 db from his peak. a medium attack and a quick release will keep it from dulling the sound too much. You can always add a second compressor or a limiter with a higher ratio after that in the chain starting perhaps 2 db shy of your peak to protect your speakers if you are worried about them.
Keep in mind that I am using this in conjunction with live players with screaming trumpets and wailing amps, so it is very much parallel compression. If the OP is using all loops in prearranged sets, wel then...more or less compression will be needed depending on your track settings.
By all means, make sure you aren't overloading the channel on the mixer OR the main output on the mixer as this will induce terrible distortion and could harm the speakers as well as the sound.

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 Post subject: Re: Using a Limiter for performance
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 9:58 am 

Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 11:58 am
Posts: 79
why using a compressor on a master bus :?: :?: i use comprssor when i need it on a certain track, most of my tracks are loud but if u'r saying to lower all the tracks's vol. & then put a comppressor on the Master bus then i think i gotcha.

Limiter is a must anyway.


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 Post subject: Re: Using a Limiter for performance
PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 7:37 am 

Joined: Wed May 28, 2008 8:54 am
Posts: 76
I've learned a bit more about this over the last week. I recently started messing around with Izotope Ozone, and there's also a really good PDF tutorial on how to use it.

Thing is, you want to make sure that you don't have any spikes in your song; doing this can take some time and technique, such as listening to your percussive instruments and making sure they aren't too loud. Once you've achieved this to a certain degree, you can maximize the loudness of your song (the greater the balance of your instruments, the louder your track will be without squashing any sounds or clipping).

In any case, I highly recommend Izotope Ozone, because it has a very easy-to-use interface and the features are great -- EQ, multi-band compressor, harmonics exciter and loudness maximizer :)

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 Post subject: Re: Using a Limiter for performance
PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 7:39 am 

Joined: Wed May 28, 2008 8:54 am
Posts: 76
Another thing -- with the limiter, try to make sure that you aren't maximizing your track any louder than -.03 or -.02.

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 Post subject: Re: Using a Limiter for performance
PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 12:12 pm 

Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2007 12:34 am
Posts: 395
Location: London
gotta love the limiter in live8.

simple and effective

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 Post subject: Re: Using a Limiter for performance
PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 1:54 pm 

Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2009 1:43 pm
Posts: 1
thanks for the tricks

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