Choke Groups

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peter_heard01
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Choke Groups

Post by peter_heard01 » Fri Dec 04, 2009 9:05 pm

Hi Guys,

Im just wondering about choke groups. The manual says that triggering any of the sounds in a choke group will automatically cut the rest off, Question is how does the priority work? What if an open an closed hat are in the group, which one will get through if they are played at the same time?

Any help much appreciated
Cheers,
Pete
Pte

My House music of varying types...
http://soundcloud.com/pte

q.musgrove
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Re: Choke Groups

Post by q.musgrove » Fri Dec 04, 2009 10:58 pm

since it would be technically impossible for them to actually occur at the same time, which ever one the computer processes first will sound. my suggestion is to keep them on no choke group of different one's if you don't want them to cancel each other out. you can also Play the choke groups I think or automate them for effect. I personally only really use them for open/closed hi hat choking.

Eloheim
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Re: Choke Groups

Post by Eloheim » Sun Dec 06, 2009 6:22 am

q.musgrove wrote:since it would be technically impossible for them to actually occur at the same time,
Wouldn't it easily happen if say you have two midi notes snapped to the same place on the grid (ie 1.1.1?)? :lol:

Edit: Shoot! Forgot all about Einsteins Relativity theory saying that simultaneity is always relative to the observer, and can't be universal... :oops:

outershpongolia
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Re: Choke Groups

Post by outershpongolia » Sun Dec 06, 2009 7:30 am

^^^ :mrgreen:
Image

Da hand
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Re: Choke Groups

Post by Da hand » Sun Dec 06, 2009 12:38 pm

peter_heard01 wrote:Hi Guys,

Im just wondering about choke groups. The manual says that triggering any of the sounds in a choke group will automatically cut the rest off, Question is how does the priority work? What if an open an closed hat are in the group, which one will get through if they are played at the same time?

Any help much appreciated
Cheers,
Pete
You would use Choke for sounds not occurring at the same time. The sound that plays second "chokes" the first. If you want them to hit at the same time, don't use Choke.

peter_heard01
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Re: Choke Groups

Post by peter_heard01 » Wed Dec 09, 2009 7:42 pm

this doesnt really answer my question sorry, what I mean is if I place two hats in a choke group which one will get cut off, and what cuts them off?


Cheers
Pete
Pte

My House music of varying types...
http://soundcloud.com/pte

q.musgrove
Posts: 397
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Re: Choke Groups

Post by q.musgrove » Wed Dec 09, 2009 10:55 pm

all these replies and you still don't get it? seriously? If you really want the down low on how to use choke groups, you'll probably need to find the magic thread about choke groups. :D Just keep searchin brotha

3rdordertrauma
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Re: Choke Groups

Post by 3rdordertrauma » Thu Dec 10, 2009 12:11 am

peter_heard01 wrote:this doesnt really answer my question sorry, what I mean is if I place two hats in a choke group which one will get cut off, and what cuts them off?


Cheers
Pete
I'm still not entirely clear why you want to do this. Tell us what you are trying to achieve and that might help everyone come up with some solutions. Doesn't it defeat the purpose of a choke group to play two notes in a choke group at the same time?

Eloheim
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Re: Choke Groups

Post by Eloheim » Fri Dec 11, 2009 8:47 pm

This should be easy enough to just try, and make sure your midi notes are snapped to the grid so they play at exactly the same time.

A choke group just means that only one sample from that group can be playing at a time (right, I think? :wink: ). So its like every time you play a midi note that's a member of a choke group, it will automatically check to see if any other notes in that same group are playing at that moment, and if they are, it mutes them instantly so the new notes you just pressed can sound.

slaykent
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Re: Choke Groups

Post by slaykent » Sat Dec 12, 2009 12:45 am

Sound 1 and Sound 2 are in the same choke group.

Sound 1 is playing,
Press button for sound 2,
Sound 1 stops playing and Sound 2 starts playing.

Because they are in the same choke group, they will not play at the same time.

Edit: Each track in session view is a choke group. No two sounds in the same column will play together.

peter_heard01
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Re: Choke Groups

Post by peter_heard01 » Mon Dec 21, 2009 12:08 pm

okay I must be completely missing the point here. Sorry. I actually did some testing with this (maybe i should have done this to begin with).

What I wanted to know is that if there are two samples placed into a drum rack. Lets say:

D5 = hat
D#5 = snare.

And I have a clip with two notes being triggered (D5 and D#5) and that both of these notes are in choke group 1. The question is which one will play? As they are both triggered at the same time... (regardless of what goes on a processor level lets not split hairs).

So after my own testing it seems that the higher note wins. In this case D#5.

To make use of this I would advise that you lay your base hats down first in lower notes and then place the instruments that take priority in higher notes in the group.

Well hope its obvious what I was talking about. If anyone know how to effect the priority (for notes in the same group) then fee free to speak lol!

Cheers Guys,
Pete
Pte

My House music of varying types...
http://soundcloud.com/pte

yur2die4
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Re: Choke Groups

Post by yur2die4 » Mon Dec 21, 2009 10:34 pm

The choke group is only intended for those sounds that you would Want to be interrupted by another sound. Also in that case, you would never want to intentionally 'test' the priority of one over the other for the reason that part of what makes that effect significant is having that allotted amount of time defining each instrument's presence, and subsequent interruption.

I would never put a snare on a choke group unless I wanted it to be cut short by a specific sound. Yet once again, if I meant for it to be 'cut off by a sound' I would not attempt to trigger it at the same time as another sound.

The reason why the higher note chokes the lower note is probably because of the sequence in which Live prioritizes its coding for samples. (Like in the case of MIDI, every triggered/released note has a line of code that says exactly what to do). Since you can't possibly have a single stream of code explain two things at the exact same time (gibborish would probably cause program to be unresponsive) it has to play one and then the other.

Essentially, your plan limits the amount of actual control you have over the situation. Particularly if you were to attempt to trigger both at a time by hand in a live environment.. there would be random surprises beyond your control and the outcome would be unpredictable. Which isn't such a bad thing.

Surreal
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Re: Choke Groups

Post by Surreal » Thu Jan 07, 2010 7:47 pm

so, i would like to revive this question.

here is an example of why i would want to do it. really not that crazy either: i have a nice closed hi hat pattern playing in track 1 clip 1 and i want to bring in open hats that are on track 2 which is sent to track 1. this would allow me to add and drop the open high hats independently of the closed high hats.

drum machines and groove boxes are clear about priority for this SPECIFIC reason.

yur2die4
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Re: Choke Groups

Post by yur2die4 » Thu Jan 07, 2010 8:12 pm

Delay track 2.

Surreal
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Re: Choke Groups

Post by Surreal » Thu Jan 07, 2010 8:33 pm

so the only priority is time?

that is a little frustrating, but thank you.

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