MIDI and Audio into the Same Track: Is This Possible?

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sundar
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MIDI and Audio into the Same Track: Is This Possible?

Post by sundar » Wed Jun 16, 2010 10:27 pm

I've created an instrument in Max/MSP that takes MIDI signals from the MIDI attachment on the guitar, which are fed into an FM synthesizer algorithm. Now this instrument then also takes a direct audio signal from my guitar and convolves this signal with the output of the synthesizer. Thus, it needs both audio and MIDI inputs and produces audio output. It works fine in the Max 5 environment but I am unable to get it to work in the Max for Live. It seems that Max instruments in Max for Live are only able to accept MIDI inputs. (Otherwise, Max audio effects can receive audio input but it does not seem that there is an option for something that accepts both.) Is there a way to make this work in Max for Live?

Thanks
Sundar

ShelLuser
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Re: MIDI and Audio into the Same Track: Is This Possible?

Post by ShelLuser » Thu Jun 17, 2010 8:15 pm

I think your question would have been better in place in the M4L forum. But anyway...
sundar wrote:Thus, it needs both audio and MIDI inputs and produces audio output. It works fine in the Max 5 environment but I am unable to get it to work in the Max for Live. It seems that Max instruments in Max for Live are only able to accept MIDI inputs.
Its not so much M4L which is causing this "limitation", its Live itself. An audio track doesn't route midi data just like you can't route audio data into a midi track.

What might work however is side-chaining. I know for a fact that this can be done within M4L as I've seen (ok; read about) several patches already which performed this stuff.

To give a better idea what I'm talking about: by default Live starts up with an audio and a midi track. You can't tell the audio track to send its audio to the midi track nor does the midi track allow you to 'pull' the audio data into it.

Now; assign the compressor to the midi track, click the 'arrow button' and turn on side chaining. And presto; the compressor can "pull in" audio from an audio track and respond to it.

That same approach is doable with M4L. Can't be more specific about this myself since I've never touched this particular subject yet.
With kind regards,

Peter

Using the 'Power' Trio: Live 10 Suite (+ Push & Max 8 ), Reason 10 and Maschine Mk3 (+ the ultimate Komplete 12).
Blog: SynthFan (under heavy construction!)

sundar
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Re: MIDI and Audio into the Same Track: Is This Possible?

Post by sundar » Thu Jun 17, 2010 11:47 pm

Thanks. I reposted my question to the M4L board. I'm not totally sure how side-chaining would work since this instrument requires both MIDI and audio inputs to even produce any sound at all, before it even goes to something like a compressor. Or am I misunderstanding?

luddy
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Re: MIDI and Audio into the Same Track: Is This Possible?

Post by luddy » Fri Jun 18, 2010 6:57 am

I'm curious to the see the responses about this as well.

Compressor is maybe not the best example because it is an audio effect with an audio side-chain. Corpus on the other hand is an audio effect with a MIDI side-chain. When you instantiate Corpus in a set, it appears as a MIDI destination for MIDI tracks in the project. That's what you'd like to be able to do in M4L as well. The thing is, it isn't enough apparently to put a midiin object in a M4L instrument or audio effect; doing so doesn't have the automatic effect of making that instrument a MIDI destination for other tracks. It doesn't "publish" the MIDI port as it were. I don't know what needs to be done to make this happen and couldn't find anything describing how to do it online.

-Luddy

teb
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Re: MIDI and Audio into the Same Track: Is This Possible?

Post by teb » Wed May 25, 2011 4:27 am

hi, maybe check this out,
i have the same problem trying to build a Ozone Stutter effect kind of device.


search for

Audio2MIDI 1.0

at maxforlive.com

Dragonbreath
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Re: MIDI and Audio into the Same Track: Is This Possible?

Post by Dragonbreath » Sun Jun 05, 2011 4:02 am

Im not sure how your patch works and never used max...

But I agreed on the compressor sidechaine, turn on the sidechain listen (the little headphone icon) and it allows you audio to exist on midi track
Witch it shouldn't otherwise allow...

not sure if this helps with what your trying to do

wehkah
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Re: MIDI and Audio into the Same Track: Is This Possible?

Post by wehkah » Sun Jun 05, 2011 10:19 am

Just route the audio-channel to the midi-channel. Then arm both tracks. Same like using a vst vocoder or so. This seems the simpliest way.


cheers
T
Motto: sharing knowledge...

https://soundcloud.com/bytechop

a386
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Re: MIDI and Audio into the Same Track: Is This Possible?

Post by a386 » Wed May 29, 2013 10:53 pm

in case anybody is still wondering about this kind of thing, i've come upon a pretty simple solution:

in live, make 2 tracks: one audio track and one midi track. make the input of your midi track the midi controller, and the input of your audio track the audio from the guitar.

then, make 2 M4L effects: one audio effect and one midi effect. the entire midi effect should be as follows: the [midiin] object connected to a [send] object with a name of your choice (mine is [send midi].) now, make a [receive] object of the same name in the audio effect (mine is [receive midi].) the raw midi will appear at the outlet of the receive object, and you're ready to process your audio!

hope this helps.

a386
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Re: MIDI and Audio into the Same Track: Is This Possible?

Post by a386 » Wed May 29, 2013 11:06 pm

further research: the above method, while simple, introduces a small (tens of milliseconds, depending on live's audio buffer) latency which may be unacceptable for certain kinds of thing. an alternate solution: http://collapsingsound.net/downloads.html

braduro
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Re: MIDI and Audio into the Same Track: Is This Possible?

Post by braduro » Fri Jul 25, 2014 9:21 pm

Pardon me in advance as this a bit of a detour, but I'm trying to understand ableton's routing and it may help with the concepts here:
I have a sequencer INSTRUMENT which also sends midi out. If it's audio output is routed to a separate audio track with an instance of corpus, corpus is unable to list the midi output of the instrument in its side-chain drop-down menu. I can confirm that the instrument is sending midi output on top of audio because I can hear the audio and I can assign a separate midi track to midi input from the instrument track, then use this 2nd midi track as the side chain source/carrier on corpus. Why can't I have the midi output from the instrument go straight to corpus?

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