intuitive kaoss pad/MPC like midi looping

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benjamingordon
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intuitive kaoss pad/MPC like midi looping

Post by benjamingordon » Sun Aug 15, 2010 6:43 pm

Hi.

I've been using ableton for a while now and one thing I've always found VERY frustrating is how hard it is to loop midi intuitively.

I think it's because you can't pre-specify the loop length before you record it in (like the kaoss pad) (for audio and midi).

For this reason not only do you have to have a button mapped to the clip slot but you have to hit it when you want it to loop, taking your hands or feet away from playing in the loop.

Even in logic I would enable the loop brace to 2bars for example and then everything I do within those 2 bars gets recorded and looped round... Simple.

Do you guys see my frustration?

I don't want to come across like I'm not willing to try new ways of working but this just doesn't work for me.

I would use an MPC because it's perfect for midi looping but ableton's sync is so crap that I simply can't sync anything to it!!

Anyone have any ideas?

Cheers :)

yur2die4
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Re: intuitive kaoss pad/MPC like midi looping

Post by yur2die4 » Sun Aug 15, 2010 10:05 pm

I hear ya on this one. I learned about this in reverse, but I think that it has always been a little bit of a hindrance for me.

I learned this stuff using Live so I'm really used to how that workflow goes, but there are a lot of ways of working things out. You did however give me an idea. I'm going to see if when assigning a CC to the Loop Length, specific amounts result in specific, consistent, lengths. The only way I can still see this working properly is if I were to say, double-click a blank spot and then while the clip is selected, quick hit the 'button' that designates the loop's length.


What got me spoiled on the MPC style side of things is figuring out Maschine. Once I grasped it (in comparison to Live) I reeeally enjoyed the smoothness! Particularly the ability to switch back and forth between clips without having to retrigger. And while the record is on, being able to plop in new notes effortlessly. The clip is basically always playing, so you don't have to wait for it to trigger, in order for it to overdub.

The one advantage in Live though is long solos. I can trigger. play, play, play, play, and retrigger at any moment I want. Is there a way you like to do something similar for an MPC style? maybe setting a ridiculously long clip, and then shortening it to the length of your solo? hmmmmmmm

benjamingordon
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Re: intuitive kaoss pad/MPC like midi looping

Post by benjamingordon » Sun Aug 15, 2010 10:52 pm

erm maybe... maybe not... i dont think id make that much use from it.

so does maschine let you play in midi parts as clips or as clips within the maschine software/plugin?

what control do you have over taking loops out and starting with brand new ones, then bringing previous ones in etc..?

i wish there was an NI rep london way.... they are so crap and keep emailing me back stock answers with links.... rubbish customer service!!

yur2die4
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Re: intuitive kaoss pad/MPC like midi looping

Post by yur2die4 » Sun Aug 15, 2010 11:17 pm

I don't have a lot-lot of experience with my Maschine, but there are the Patterns and the Scenes. Patterns are the clips.

There are banks of pads A - H. Each with the 16 pads. The pads can be used where each pad is a one-shot, or each pad can be a whole instrument. When you record patterns, each bank can create a number of patterns (I think it is 1-16 x 4?). I assume that this is all similar to the MPC.

With the group/bank patterns, it is necessary to have midi notes set for a per-pad method. With the pads as individual instruments, you would want for each pad, the entire spectrum of it's midi pattern data.

Being useable as either a vst or standalone, they've implemented some drag-out midi and/or audio functionality. As far as I know, it can't drag back in. I think that the latest version of Maschine also opens some formats of MPC files (I don't know if that is of any use? haha). Some people have been working on workarounds for workflow. I guess it has midi in-out, but even that takes some fiddling around before you have it 'fully set up'. Even after that, there might be some bleh moments.

On its own though, Maschine is quite amazing. And then it is nice to be able to quickly drop it all into another program for finishing touches.

towers of silence
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Re: intuitive kaoss pad/MPC like midi looping

Post by towers of silence » Mon Aug 16, 2010 6:50 pm

I think I may be misunderstanding part of your question so sorry if this doesn't help, but you can pre-specify the loop length beforehand- just arm the track you'll want to be looping on, and double click in an empty clip slot to the right of the clip launch/record button. An empty clip will appear and then you can set the loop length by dragging the loop braces or manually typing in the length you want (the default is 1 bar). Now when you hit the loop launch/record button for your empty clip the first time it will continue to loop while you record without you needing to break your flow to hit the clip launch button again.

I don't have an MPC so I'm not sure if this will be the solution you're looking for, but this will allow you to set up one (or more) empty clips ahead of time that are set to loop at whatever length you want, and like your example with Logic, it will just keep looping that clip without any need to trigger the launch clip button again.
Further, you could also pre-make some empty clips that are 1 bar, 2 bars, 4 bars long, etc, stick them in your library and drag them out when you need them, that would streamline the process even more...

AceLuby
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Re: intuitive kaoss pad/MPC like midi looping

Post by AceLuby » Mon Aug 16, 2010 8:27 pm

towers of silence wrote:I think I may be misunderstanding part of your question so sorry if this doesn't help, but you can pre-specify the loop length beforehand- just arm the track you'll want to be looping on, and double click in an empty clip slot to the right of the clip launch/record button. An empty clip will appear and then you can set the loop length by dragging the loop braces or manually typing in the length you want (the default is 1 bar). Now when you hit the loop launch/record button for your empty clip the first time it will continue to loop while you record without you needing to break your flow to hit the clip launch button again.

I don't have an MPC so I'm not sure if this will be the solution you're looking for, but this will allow you to set up one (or more) empty clips ahead of time that are set to loop at whatever length you want, and like your example with Logic, it will just keep looping that clip without any need to trigger the launch clip button again.
Further, you could also pre-make some empty clips that are 1 bar, 2 bars, 4 bars long, etc, stick them in your library and drag them out when you need them, that would streamline the process even more...
Pretty much exactly what I was thinking. I do this on a regular basis. I use the APC-40 to create a blank clip of how long I want, then hit the MIDI/Overdub and voilla! a MIDI clip w/ pre-determined length.
levimoniz wrote:yes i'm a hypocrite and not intelligent

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