Latency between 2 laptops

jeskola · Post by **jeskola** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 2:44 pm

I have a problem - a dell slaved to an Apple - all works fine... except after 8 or 9 mins or so the tempo drifts ridiculosly and we have to play with the midi sync delay... not ideal - how can we get it to stay bang on from the moment we start till the moment we stop as were looking to do a 2hr live show.

jeskola · Post by **jeskola** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 2:46 pm

anyone help out??

purplenoise · Post by **purplenoise** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 6:50 pm

How exactly are you synchronizing these laptops? are you using MTC or Midi Clock?

The problem you have makes it seem like the slave is responding to transport commands (play, stop, etc) but freewheeling after that (not locking to the master)

Make sure that the master is sending the clock signal that you intend the slave to receive (Whether that is MTC or Clocks) and conversely the slave is set to receive the same.

The sync delay should only be necessary to compensate for any synch error that is evident from the very start of playback. Drift should not exist.

Aales · Post by **Aales** » Sat Jan 22, 2005 2:06 pm

I have the excact same problem!

I run Live 4.1 on a G5/RME Fireface 800 -NICE I might add.

But when I wanna synch with Reason on my Powerbook, using the Korg microKontrol as midi interface i firstly have to set my synch delay to about -234 ms.

As I add effects in Live it seems this delay value has to be found again and again..
It works fine the first 10-15 minutes and then goes off

jasefos · Post by **jasefos** » Fri Jan 28, 2005 1:59 pm

I have a better suggestion.

Consider that your performance will be in a disasterous state if the system which is master clock crashes.

Better solution ...
A simple Drum Machine or groove box which, most importantly, can count time ACCURATELY. We'll call this "clock source".

Examples include:
Roland R8, Korg's Electribes (any of them)

Examples don't include:
Alesis SR16 (pressing buttons on its front panel jitters the internal clock - lol)

Most importantly this hardware MIDI Cock source is shitloads less likely to crash than a software based clock source.

Purchase 2 lengthy MIDI cables that are 100% identical.

Chop both cables in half with a knife.

The 2 MIDI cables are going to be formed into a W adapter (i.e. like a Y adapter but with 3:1 instead of 2:1).

Expose ends of cable outer wrap and then expose internal cables

Twiddle/Solder/Gaff the colour matched ends so that 3 MIDI cable halves are "connecting" to 1 of the MIDI cable halves. Gaffa tape individual connectors to ensure no short circuits then Gaffa tape around the assembly for this adhoc MIDI Thru box.

This cable will now provide 3 copies of MIDI clock appearing at the MIDI Out from the designated Clock Source hardware device. The above steps achieve a crude "Thru Box" (a proper thru box would be better however will cost $$$).

Now make Live on Laptop 1 and Laptop 2 synch to external MIDI clock and connect the MIDI feeds into the MIDI In of interfaces attached to each laptop.

The spare feed could be used to send clock into a nice external hardware FX processor sporting tempo based FX (e.g. Delay, Phase, Flange, Sequenced Filters) with ability to sync to MIDI Clock. Ensoniq DP4 and Korg KAOSS pad mk2 serves me fine for this use. This 3rd feed could of course be sent to a 3rd laptop running Live/Reason/Storm/whatever.\

Now you have an uncrashable set !!!

If one laptop crashes ... so what ... there is another already playing other material tempo synced. You won't have to deal with the dreaded "2 minutes of silence" while you reboot !!!

In utter emergency the MIDI Clock source device could take over in the unlikely event Laptop1 and Laptop2 crashes (chances are of course massively remote unless your laptops are having issues).

In such a setup I'd recommend 2 MIDI inputs on each laptop (1 tol receive MIDI Clock; 1 to receive MIDI keyboard for sequencing).

Hope this tip is of some use to someone !!

Cheers

jasefos

hacktheplanet · Post by **hacktheplanet** » Sun Jan 30, 2005 12:37 am

That's an amazing idea with the MIDI clock spitter sync thing. I think my next purchase is going to be a through box and another small audio interface for my second iBook.

An easy question (i'll look at the manual for the answer too): Suppose you press the global stop button in Live. It stops playback, and is unable to restart playback unless you hit "play" again on the clock source. Is there a way to tell Live to play without having to hit "play" on the clock sourfce again?

jasefos · Post by **jasefos** » Fri Feb 04, 2005 5:46 am

the_planet wrote:An easy question (i'll look at the manual for the answer too): Suppose you press the global stop button in Live. It stops playback, and is unable to restart playback unless you hit "play" again on the clock source. Is there a way to tell Live to play without having to hit "play" on the clock sourfce again?

Nope - it's not something that Live should have to do anyway since every device which does slave to MIDI Clock (be it hardware or software) requires a Start command sent to re-join the fun.

The most ideal MIDI Clock generators for this purpose are those that don't require you to Stop the transport first before Starting.

Something which frustrated me about using the Roland R8 for this purpose was the fact it's Start button was also the Stop button. The only way to send a Start command was to Stop first, then the same button would become a Start.

Electribes rock for this purpose::::::

The ES1, EA1, ER1 (and mark 2 versions) require you press and hold Shift while tapping Play .... no big deal there ... it works well

The ESX1/EMX1 are a little better for the application since the |< button immediately sends a Start command (without having to hold the Shift key at the same time like the first generation Electribes) and has a large surface area which means you can do double strikes with it using 2 fingers.

Why is this cool ?

If you're clever enough (or should I say musical enough) to be able to tap the button in time with the beats playing you can do 8th and 16th rolls with ALL the sequencers slaved to it in your rig ...

In fact it would be wicked to be able to tie the Electribes Arpegiator ribbon to restriking the Reset button. In a live PA set you could do some seriously large rolls and build using this technique without risk of retriggering out of time.

Strauzzie · Post by **Strauzzie** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 4:45 pm

Does anyone know if it would be possible to use Midi Yoke to forward the Midi Clock from a Korg MicroKontrol (passed via USB) to the two outputs of an Edirol UM2? I wonder if this would work; saving me from having to buy a thru box.

Any experiences?

Latency between 2 laptops

Latency between 2 laptops

Synchronization