audio files combined

[avigail1]

Hello I tried to find info concerning a question I have and couldn't find the answer.
I am trying to synthesis between two audio files and can't figure out if I am missing something. I am sure I am not asking this correctly but I'd be very grateful for help...
What I am trying to do is have one audio file play while it is controled by another audio file or for example that one audio file play but that it's frequency spectrum be that of another file. I am not trying to play two samples together (like a+b=ab but more a+b=c), is this clear in any way?:) I do hope you can help.

[duckpow]

Vocoder?

[avigail1]

didn't understand friend:)
If vocoder is the tool then can you help me with how to use it to do this?
Thanks so much

[stefan-tiedje]

It is not quite clear what you hear in your head...
If we talk about spectral content of sound, or of a track, this is changing all the time. If you apply the spectrum of track A completely to track B, then you hear the same as on track A.
There are two ways to describe a sound. One is the frequency domain, the other is the time domain. You can use both.
Our perception though, does make a distinction. Time structures smaller than 50ms are perceived spectral, time structures bigger than 50ms are perceived as events or rhythms.
A vocoder would analyze track A, and apply a filter based on its frequency content to track B. But if track B does not have certain frequencies, the filter would not produce them.
Another approach could be to apply the envelope (time structure) of Track A to Track B. Here again, if Track B is silent when Track A is loud, you would not hear anything...

Just start experimenting...

Stefan

[avigail1]

Dear Stephan
Thanks so much, I think I'm starting to understand what you're saying. I will try to focus on what you say:)
I'll explain more perhaps it will be clearer: I am using field recordings of muslim, christian, jewish chants and prayers and wish to have one sample (say a muslim mosque canticle controling a christian prayer in terms of triggering it and also merging the one with the other). I think I am gradually starting to learn how the vocoder tool helps me in this. It just sounds very dirty, tyring to clean up the sound so that it's clearer..
Thanks so much for your advise.
Emmanuel

[stefan-tiedje]

Now I get an idea what you are after. In your case you'd rather work with samples. Have also a look at different ways of morphing sound. I could imagine that this would yield interesting results. You could also do some sort of blending, like start with a Muslim phrase and end with a Jewish or vice versa. This requires more a dedicated sound editor than a DAW like Live. Then if the samples and their transformations are done, you can play them in Live...
If you are on a Mac, have a look at Soundhack from Tom Erbe...
Much to study for sure, but the project sounds interesting. Keep us posted...

Stefan

[avigail1]

I see, so you think I should get sampler to work with the samples this way? sure thing, thr vocoder tool was an interesting start but not quite the sound I had in mind, but would definately work as a layer. I contacted soundhack, and will also try audiosculpt if you've heard of it, it's developed at IRCAM in Paris.
Warm regards
Emmanuel

[stefan-tiedje]

Yes, with the aid of Audiosculpt you could create some sort of morphing. Its worth getting into...
There are also the spectral tutorials from CNMAT, which implement some of this stuff in Max/MSP.
http://cnmat.berkeley.edu/patch/2741
Should also work in MaxForLive....

[avigail1]

thanks so much for your advise. I have been working since we last exchanged mails with soundhack and it does some amazing morphs:)
Thanks!:)
Emmanuel

[dentaku]

Have you looked at Photosounder? http://photosounder.com
With Photosounder and any graphics software (like Photoshop) you can manipulate sound in many different ways.

thanks so much for your advise. I have been working since we last exchanged mails with soundhack and it does some amazing morphs:)
Thanks!:)
Emmanuel

[avigail1]

I'll check it out prontissimo... just did a convolution synth with a kleizmer band in the old city and a chrsitian chant from the church of nativity... you can't begin to believe the result... whew:)
e

[Boss Level Music]

Could you extract a groove from one sample and apply it to the other? not sure if thats at all helpful but you've got me curious. I'd be interested to know if and how you achieve your desired end result.

[Dragonbreath]

Did you try sidechain compression...?

[polymer]

This is from the ESI 4000 EMU sampler
Is granular or spectral similar to this I don't know.


"Transform Multiply
This unique function merges two sounds together in a way that
accentuates frequencies common to both sounds while discarding
uncommon frequencies. Because of this characteristic, Transform Multi-
plication tends to work best with sounds that are harmonically rich.
Using this function is easy. Just pick two sounds and multiply! Although
you have to wait to hear the results, Transform Multiplication can
produce many strange and beautiful textures unattainable by any other
means. The length of the resulting sample will be equal to that of the
current sample. "