Ableton Forum

Hi,

The question is a little more subtle than the title implies...

Basically I use a Novation Remote SL (old one) to control VST through their Automap software. it is pretty nice once you have it tailored to your needs.

I plan on getting NI Maschine and from what i see on some videos the control of VST seems very similar and probably better when it comes to NI VST (Massive, FM8...). The fact that you can rely on a "standard" template or create your own (quite fast as they have a Learn function) is pretty similar to Automap, but the "standard" template might be better.

So basically it is not really about knowing if Maschine is better than Automap, but more how people who used Novation products in the past and switched to NI Maschine are living this transition. Do they keep Maschine + Novation (remote SL, compact, automap...) or just switched to Maschine, period.

My question is more regarding the control of VST but any comment is appreciated.

Thanks

T

No one went from Novation Automap to Maschine ?

Sold my Remote SL. I just use Maschine almost exclusively now.

Yes - me too. Used to have the ReMote SL Mk II and hated the whole Automap software, not to mention the awful build quality. Sold it and use Maschine exclusively now. Never looked back.

Sold my SL mkII. Have Maschine now about 5 hours and it's.. fascinating

Thanks for the feedback...

it seems pretty clear...

I have a mk1 Remote SL and Maschine. Maschine has better knobs. But the SL transport always works whereas machine's doesn't if you running it as a VST. Either of them can navigate the session view grid but I use my launchpad for that (just a gear junkie then).
I use the Mackie control template for Live, see the NI forum for how to set it up, makes it very Automap like in midi mode.
The SL is best for controlling Live's mixer and instrument on/off and for automapping to macros.

Tibo2004 wrote:Hi,

The question is a little more subtle than the title implies...

Basically I use a Novation Remote SL (old one) to control VST through their Automap software. it is pretty nice once you have it tailored to your needs.

I plan on getting NI Maschine and from what i see on some videos the control of VST seems very similar and probably better when it comes to NI VST (Massive, FM8...). The fact that you can rely on a "standard" template or create your own (quite fast as they have a Learn function) is pretty similar to Automap, but the "standard" template might be better.

So basically it is not really about knowing if Maschine is better than Automap, but more how people who used Novation products in the past and switched to NI Maschine are living this transition. Do they keep Maschine + Novation (remote SL, compact, automap...) or just switched to Maschine, period.

My question is more regarding the control of VST but any comment is appreciated.

Thanks

T

Maschine is the best, hands down. knobs are fluid, mapping is a breeze, and within ableton its a BEAST of a controller. I used to dink around with a lot of Novation products, but after you talk to a lot of Maschine users, you'll find that as you get more comfortable with using Maschine your other controllers tend to lose their allure, and you end up doing more and more just with Maschine.
I know your question was sort of quarantined to VST control, but control as a whole through your music will skyrocket with the Maschine. I haven't talked to anyone who still uses their Novation Remote after they've gotten their hands on a Maschine.

I do still use my Launchpad though. Launchpad is a no brainer for anyone using Live as far as I'm concerned. There's a few people on the studio pics thread who have 2 of them.

But back to Maschine.. mmmmm Maschiinnnneee ...

In case it's not clear to anyone unfamiliar with Maschine, you can load any VST/AU plug-in straight from the Maschine hardware (standalone or hosted Maschine software)

All parameters of the plug-in are automatically mapped to several pages of Maschines 8 knobs, with the description of the parameter appearing on the hardwares LCD. These mappings can be quickly cleared and you can set up a default template with whatever controls you like

- in other words, you can easily set it up so that every time you load Albino, you have your most used 32 parameters mapped to 4 pages on the hardware. (for example)

- Once you see this in person, you will realise just how powerful Maschine is, just in this aspect which only makes up a small part of its capabilities.
It's like having a Nocturn on speed, built into your drum pad controller, which also works as a groovebox, sampler, step sequencer, workstation, looper, etc

Actually comparing that feature to the Nocturn is too kind to the Nocturn. Novation make a big song and dance about Automap and have all these tutorial videos online and still have people bitching about it all over the net. Then Native Instruments come along and make a controller which does the job more elegantly, apparently as an afterthought.

sigh... get Machine. Its frickin awesome.

condra wrote:Actually comparing that feature to the Nocturn is too kind to the Nocturn. Novation make a big song and dance about Automap and have all these tutorial videos online and still have people bitching about it all over the net. Then Native Instruments come along and make a controller which does the job more elegantly, apparently as an afterthought.

sigh... get Machine. Its frickin awesome.

Credit should be given to Novation for being the first to attempt it though. They should have made the proprietary "Automap" layer stay out of the way and let it do its thing in the background instead of having the Automap Server application launch every time you launch a DAW.

Agreed. Actually I love Novation as a company, not just because Launchpad is fantastic. They had good intentions with Automap, making the best of a bad situation what with VSTs being a mess.

I never understood why there was not more software written especially for specific hardware, and when it did happen, it sometimes failed (plugiator).

There should have been more standards in VST from the start, but every developer did whatever they liked in their GUIs and every hardware devoper just did what they pleased with their stuff.

I mean, imagine if the layout of the UC33e was a popular standard. It would be freaking awesome. Or would have been back in the day.

Anyway. No offence to Novation but I've had more tweak fun in just 48 hours with Maschine than a couple of years of SLmkII

condra wrote:All parameters of the plug-in are automatically mapped to several pages of Maschines 8 knobs, with the description of the parameter appearing on the hardwares LCD. These mappings can be quickly cleared and you can set up a default template with whatever controls you like

- in other words, you can easily set it up so that every time you load Albino, you have your most used 32 parameters mapped to 4 pages on the hardware. (for example)

That's just what novation automap with a remote SL does, isn't it? Except you have 16 knobs 8 faders and a bunch of buttons

delicioso wrote:Credit should be given to Novation for being the first to attempt it though. They should have made the proprietary "Automap" layer stay out of the way and let it do its thing in the background instead of having the Automap Server application launch every time you launch a DAW.

The automap server app opens to the notification area and doesn't do anything until I ask it to, I don't even notice it running most of the time. Can you please explain how it gets in the way? I'm genuinely really confused about this.

twisted-space wrote:

condra wrote:All parameters of the plug-in are automatically mapped to several pages of Maschines 8 knobs, with the description of the parameter appearing on the hardwares LCD. These mappings can be quickly cleared and you can set up a default template with whatever controls you like

- in other words, you can easily set it up so that every time you load Albino, you have your most used 32 parameters mapped to 4 pages on the hardware. (for example)

That's just what novation automap with a remote SL does, isn't it? Except you have 16 knobs 8 faders and a bunch of buttons

No. This is what Automap should do but it doesn't. I spent several pointless evenings trying to get my head round Automap then gave up out of sheer frustration. Maschine's automapping works the way you expect to right out of the box which is what I love about it. If you can work Automap without any problems then you

A: Are a far, far better person than I and
B: Probably should stick with it. I'm a big believer that there is no point in trading gear just for gear's sake. I hated Automap - doesn't mean everyone else does. If it works for you - stick with it.

The biggest problem I have with automap is deciding how I want to lay out the controls, and as I only tend to do that once (with maybe a few tweaks) when I get a new plugin it's really not a big deal.

I agree that early versions of the automap server could be quite flakey, but I honestly can't remember the last time I had an issue with it.