NI Maschine vs Novation Remote (Automap)

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condra
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Re: NI Maschine vs Novation Remote (Automap)

Post by condra » Sat May 07, 2011 12:12 pm

twisted-space wrote: That's just what novation automap with a remote SL does, isn't it? Except you have 16 knobs 8 faders and a bunch of buttons
........
The automap server app opens to the notification area and doesn't do anything until I ask it to, I don't even notice it running most of the time. Can you please explain how it gets in the way? I'm genuinely really confused about this.
Hav you used Maschine yet? If you like Automap I think you would love Maschine.

I've owned a handful of Novation kit over the years. I love their keyboards, and Launchpad is a dark horse, but Automap annoys me.

Automap involves several headaches which Maschine does not:

1 - getting your head around Automap in the first place. You can tell me its simple all you like but if it was simple, people wouldn't constantly bitch about it.
--- Maschines automatic mapping is genuinely straightforward.

2 - automap server, automap HUI. I don't know what its like in Windows, but in Mac OSX there is an extra "layer" open whenever you load Live.
--- Plug-ins load directly into Maschine, whether it is in standalone mode or hosted.

3 - Automap regular or pay extra for Automap Pro... more headaches
--- Once you own Maschine, you own Maschine. There is no half-baked version.

4 - With Automap, you need to "wrap" all your plug-ins.
--- Maschine doesn't need to wrap your plug-ins.

The Northern Contingent wrote: I hated Automap - doesn't mean everyone else does. If it works for you - stick with it. :D
Agreed. I actually did get my head around Automap, and used it a bit for a while, but it's simply
not as elegant as Maschine.

Not only that, but "Automapping" is only one string in Maschines bow. It's just another market Native Instruments have decimated in one brilliant fell swoop.

The Northern Contingent
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Re: NI Maschine vs Novation Remote (Automap)

Post by The Northern Contingent » Sat May 07, 2011 12:16 pm

Very true - well put!

twisted-space
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Re: NI Maschine vs Novation Remote (Automap)

Post by twisted-space » Sat May 07, 2011 1:20 pm

condra wrote:Have you used Maschine yet? If you like Automap I think you would love Maschine
Nope, I'm not looking for another host, controller or groovebox.
condra wrote:Automap involves several headaches which Maschine does not:

1 - getting your head around Automap in the first place. You can tell me its simple all you like but if it was simple, people wouldn't constantly bitch about it.
--- Maschines automatic mapping is genuinely straightforward.
I don't find it complicated in the least and it's clear that the op is comfortable with it. I can't comment for how others might feel.
condra wrote: 2 - automap server, automap HUI. I don't know what its like in Windows, but in Mac OSX there is an extra "layer" open whenever you load Live.
--- Plug-ins load directly into Maschine, whether it is in standalone mode or hosted.
Automap server loads when you open live, it sits in the notification area (by the clock) and does nothing unless you open it, which you can do either from it's icon, or from the hardware. Automap HUI is an emulation of Mackie's HUI, you don't need it, nor can you use it in live as it doesn't support it. Ignore it...... simple.

Surely maschine's software is an extra layer you have to have open to use it in live? Without the software, isn't it just an expensive trigger finger? (Can you even use the hardware as a controller on it's own without running the software?) I don't see the distinction.
condra wrote: 3 - Automap regular or pay extra for Automap Pro... more headaches
--- Once you own Maschine, you own Maschine. There is no half-baked version.
I'd hardly call that a headache, you decide if you need:

Drag and drop of parameter mappings.
Mapping of keyboard shortcuts.
Use of multiple automap devices.

If not you stick with automap standard, if so, buy pro.

I do agree though, that they dropped the ball with this. there should have been a single version that was free with any automap comaptible device and had all the features working.
condra wrote: 4 - With Automap, you need to "wrap" all your plug-ins.
--- Maschine doesn't need to wrap your plug-ins.
Agreed, but I don't see why that's a problem.

I get that maschine does lots that automap doesn't, it's a groovebox of sorts after all. But as far as it's ability to automap plugins is concerned, which was kind of what the op asked, I don't see that it does anything, that automap doesn't.


I'm really glad that you're happy with it though. It's obvious that you're excited and inspired by it.

yur2die4
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Re: NI Maschine vs Novation Remote (Automap)

Post by yur2die4 » Sat May 07, 2011 9:19 pm

I love my Maschine, but there is quite a difference between using it as a vst host, and using Automap.

Maschine is really really amazing (understatement). Especially standalone!

If you use it in Ableton Live, as a vst host, you need either, to have the one instance of Maschine open that routes each channel out to different channels of audio within Live, or you need multiple instances of Maschine.

Personally, I love having both. The Remote has keys, so that is handy within Maschine :) Plus, you can use automap User mode, to control both Live AND macros within Maschine.

Automation recording with each can have its ups and downs.

Plan to use MIDI clips from Live at all?? Maschine can potentially become a headache for routing. If you don't have something pre-planned, you could end up spending a lot of extra time.

Tibo2004
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Re: NI Maschine vs Novation Remote (Automap)

Post by Tibo2004 » Mon May 30, 2011 8:24 pm

Personally, I love having both. The Remote has keys, so that is handy within Maschine :) Plus, you can use automap User mode, to control both Live AND macros within Maschine.
Can you just elaborate what you mean by User mode? you mean MIDI CC to control some parameters in Live and some parameters in Maschine?

Thank you,
--------------

yur2die4
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Re: NI Maschine vs Novation Remote (Automap)

Post by yur2die4 » Mon May 30, 2011 9:17 pm

Yes. There are a few ways of going about doing it too.

The obvious one is setting the appropriate CC#'s in the Automap page that your Maschine vst would respond to.

Another option is making an extra User Remote Script specifically for Automap. It can include the page-select option for your macro knobs. When you have the Maschine vst 'configure' option on, you can tap all of the knobs that you want control of. If you have more than 8, they carry over to the next 'page' of macros.

I'm not sure about your older version, but my MKII has great control of both tempo and the transport. Those are invaluable when you have immediate access to them. With Maschine, the 'play' button only applies to standalone, unless you switch the Maschine to MIDI mode. On my MKII, the tempo control is in a 'Quick Menu' option. I don't even have to map anything for it, it has tap tempo and can use a rotary dial or up/down. I've seen many people on here wish they had that kind of automatic control over bpm.

loveslap
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Re: NI Maschine vs Novation Remote (Automap)

Post by loveslap » Fri Apr 26, 2013 11:05 pm

but when maschine is controlling ableton the names of the ableton macros don't show on the maschine.. is there a way to fix that?

Theo Void
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Re: NI Maschine vs Novation Remote (Automap)

Post by Theo Void » Sun Apr 28, 2013 5:55 am

I've never used an SL but I love my Launchpad! That said I HATE auto-map. It was terrible back when I attempted to use it. Not sure if it's gotten better but I'm not real concerned since I map the shit outta my launchpad anyways.
Also, MASCHINE!!!!! Oh, my dear Maschine!! I am absolutely in love w/ MAschine! It's literally the greatest piece of gear I've ever owned and have the pleasure to use. It's extremely powerful and the work-flow is just seamless and fun! Totally intuitive and logical. I wish i'd have bought one years ago!!!

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