can loops conform to a human groove?

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oddrhythm
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can loops conform to a human groove?

Post by oddrhythm » Wed Feb 09, 2005 4:34 am

If i record myself playing congas, and bring that audio loop into Live, i can see where i was late or early in my playing , but if i like that natural feel, how can i make a 4/4 audio sample of a breakbeat, conform to my groove?
in Reason, i can play a groove on my keyboard using drum samples or whatever, and save it as a 'user groove', and then i can quantize any other part of the song exactly to that groove.

in Live would i have to do it manually for each track?

the warp markers seem good for making things perfect, but i want to make tracks (ie. samples already in perfect 4/4 straight time) fit to grooves that i play manually.

ml

Noematus
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Post by Noematus » Thu Feb 10, 2005 8:01 pm

Instead of trying to get the loops to conform to what you're playing, why don't you try to conform to the loops.

oddrhythm
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Post by oddrhythm » Thu Feb 10, 2005 9:28 pm

because i'm starting my songs with rhythms, grooves which sound interesting BECAUSE they are not quantized. I thought it would sound more interesting to use the feel of my groove and apply it to other loops.

ml

louZ
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Post by louZ » Thu Feb 10, 2005 9:42 pm

This is one of the shortcomings of Live.
They should either add groove quantize to Live or fix the tempo drifts when midi syncing Live to another sequencer app (which does have groove quantize).

Noematus
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Post by Noematus » Fri Feb 11, 2005 5:51 am

I see what you're saying. The only provisional solutions I can think of would take a long time.

MrYellow
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Post by MrYellow » Fri Feb 11, 2005 12:01 pm

You could convert your loop to midi (there are programs around) and
then extract the groove from that midi..... Bit of messing around tho...

-Ben

Tarekith
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Post by Tarekith » Fri Feb 11, 2005 12:42 pm

The only way I could see to do this, would be to first loop your 'real' playing audio sample, the one with all the timing differences you like. Then, when you are warping your clip that you want to have the same feel as the previous one, don't place your warp markers directly on the beat. By experimenting with placing them a little bit before or after, you will eventually be able to match the slight timing irregularities.

Unfortunately, you can't see two clips at once, so you will have to do this all by ear. It's possible, but more time consuming than I'd be willing to deal with while writing tunes.
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hambone1
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Post by hambone1 » Fri Feb 11, 2005 12:45 pm

I think you're trying to do what I'm trying to do.

The only way I can do it is to manually put the warp markers on all downbeats, then automate the tempo to match the original groove. It should then sound like the original, but will beatmatch anything else mixed in.

There's got to be a better way. though!

elemental
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Post by elemental » Fri Feb 11, 2005 3:05 pm

I think this is another call for a major feature request i've been wanting since live 4.0: groove quantise. We really need this feature, i used to use it all the time in Cubase and Logic. Chop up a break in recycle, save the midi file, load into sequencer, create a groove, then the groove is available as a quantize setting for anything. This is a really good way to get funky beats and bass - e.g. quantize bass line to a slightly off kik rhythm.

louZ
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Post by louZ » Fri Feb 11, 2005 8:26 pm

elemental wrote:I think this is another call for a major feature request i've been wanting since live 4.0: groove quantise. We really need this feature, i used to use it all the time in Cubase and Logic. Chop up a break in recycle, save the midi file, load into sequencer, create a groove, then the groove is available as a quantize setting for anything. This is a really good way to get funky beats and bass - e.g. quantize bass line to a slightly off kik rhythm.
yep, this feature has been aske for many times.
the abes are probably working on it.

gort
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Post by gort » Mon Feb 14, 2005 7:36 am

try this if you haven't:

http://www.circular-logic.com/products.html

"InTime" is the app..

dont know much about it.. i beta tested it a couple years ago and didnt have much time to devote to it. maybe it's your solution.. good luck!
hi-q hits and handclaps not holywars and hand grenades

hambone1
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Post by hambone1 » Mon Feb 14, 2005 9:38 am

Finally!

Page 287 of the Live 4 Power book: "Did you know you can add Warp Markers to an Audio Clip that is recording? Simply tap along with the song and Live will insert Warp Markers with your tapped beats. This is great when recording tracks that have a varying tempo, such as a song that was recorded without the assistance of computers or metronomes."

That tip alone was worth more than the cost of the book!

LiveLong
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Post by LiveLong » Mon Feb 14, 2005 2:28 pm

hambone1 wrote:Finally!

Page 287 of the Live 4 Power book: "Did you know you can add Warp Markers to an Audio Clip that is recording? Simply tap along with the song and Live will insert Warp Markers with your tapped beats. This is great when recording tracks that have a varying tempo, such as a song that was recorded without the assistance of computers or metronomes."

That tip alone was worth more than the cost of the book!
:?: Can you do this after you record? Or you should have another hand plug in installed to your body...

About the human feel to live. It is about time to have that feature.
Nice to be able to change the master grid, warp one sample and have the grid "stretch" to fit the sample timing , after that all samples will match to that feel template. It can be done manualy to each sample by ear, but why are we here in the first place 8O.

hambone1
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Post by hambone1 » Mon Feb 14, 2005 3:51 pm

I think this works!

1. Stick your audio track in (either recorded or dragged in).

2. Insert another audio track, record arm it, and set as the input the first audio track.

3. Hit record, and while monitoring, tap in the beat with the tempo tap button.

Hey, presto.. instant warps markers AND a tempo map done at the same time!

louZ
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Post by louZ » Mon Feb 14, 2005 9:06 pm

hambone1 wrote:I think this works!

1. Stick your audio track in (either recorded or dragged in).

2. Insert another audio track, record arm it, and set as the input the first audio track.

3. Hit record, and while monitoring, tap in the beat with the tempo tap button.

Hey, presto.. instant warps markers AND a tempo map done at the same time!
but does this leave you with some kind of template that can be saved? that's what we are looking for, templates that can be applied to any midi file, without having to tap the tempo in manually every time.

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