"The Utility Trick" - How to Isolate sounds

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Angstrom
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Post by Angstrom » Mon Oct 10, 2005 12:10 am

Sadly, I think you are both right , Doh!

that explains why it sounded crappy anyway!

yes, the 'side' signals are actually kind of polluted after using utility by being L=L+ & R- and R=R+&L-, it becomes impossible to do much else with them.

I was pretty sure I had a VSTeffect based solution for this one, but as I can't find it - it's not much use!

I'll keep looking

leisuremuffin
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Post by leisuremuffin » Mon Oct 10, 2005 12:21 am

try this.

two audio tracks same clip.

1st track utility set to 200% stereo L phase inverted

2nd track utility set to normal stereo R phase inverted



thats the simplest way to do what angstrom is talking about.
TimeableFloat ???S?e?n?d?I?n?f?o

leisuremuffin
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Post by leisuremuffin » Mon Oct 10, 2005 12:27 am

or not?
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Angstrom
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Post by Angstrom » Mon Oct 10, 2005 1:40 am

Ok, I made a plugin that extracts the center channel, there's even an mp3 that says "left, middle and right" in the appropriate channels so you can see that it actually works.

it could do with a bit of fine tuning to make it a bit better, it's got a bit of a hot output for example. But you will notice that it completely removes all traces of the words "left" and "right"

but here it is anyway.

Download > Center Channel Extraction VST plugin

Download > Center Channel test MP3

You will probably get much worse results with a full track of music. In fact - un-usable would acurately describe the outcome. I may tidy this up to be a useful plugin at some point, if it is at all possible.

nolus
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Post by nolus » Mon Oct 10, 2005 6:43 pm

OK I'm convinced 8O

that plugin does indeed totally remove anything that is totally L or totally R :D
[edit]but as you correctly pointed out there's some serious gating and distortion going on.[/edit]

Now I won't be able to rest until I know how it works. :x

[edit]also found this via google http://www.freewebs.com/st3pan0va/

It does quite a decent job of extracting the center using "spectral subtraction" :?:

I think it's works a bit like dynamic noise reduction where you need a sample of the noise on it's own. in this case the "noise" is the stuff on the left and right channels generated by L-R

It also has other applications (ie noise reduction!). it's a very interesting little plugin. follow the link on the web page to the KVR thread, where there are some good ideas for how it can be used. [/edit]
Last edited by nolus on Mon Oct 10, 2005 7:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"That very perceptive of you Mr Stapleton, and rather unexpected... in a G Major"

Angstrom
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Post by Angstrom » Mon Oct 10, 2005 7:21 pm

little magic elves

;)

I worked on the basis of commonality, but the first thing to do was ignore the troublesome notation
L= ( L=1 c0.5 r0) and R= (L0 c0.5 R1)
which did nothing more than give me a headache !

L isn't a useful matrix at all, so if we just treat it as an integer for theoretical purposes it's much easier to make a solution ( it also has a time component of course but we are working per sample block here)


a signal in the center
L= 1
R= 1

a signal in the Left
L= 1
R= 0

a signal in the Right
L= 0
R= 1


then with a little basic multiplication we can extract a useful product :)

so for L we do L= L*R (just reverse it for R!)

And our outcome in the first case above (L=1, R=1) this little multiplication == 1, in the second case (L=1, R=0) == 0 in the third case (L=0, R=1)== 0 .

So we only get a 1, or true if L=R ,
It works just as well for situations where the sounds aren't hard panned ... it is just more dificult to hear because of the nature of the source.

case: L= 0.3 R= 0.7 (Sound panned slightly to Right)

for Left 0.3 * 0.7 == 0.21 and Right 0.7 * 0.3 == 0.21

so for both sides we get a product which is the center component only.


Sounds terrible though doesn't it! I put a kind of soft knee compression on the math, that's what the dial does ... otherwise it can sound rough.

nolus
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Post by nolus » Mon Oct 10, 2005 7:53 pm

mmm multiplication (said in homer simpson voice)

very clever. 8)

(of course, naturally, I would of thought of it for myself eventually :wink: ).

It's marvelous what you can learn from this forum.

you might want to check out the KnOckOut plugin. I just inserted a link to it in my previous post.
"That very perceptive of you Mr Stapleton, and rather unexpected... in a G Major"

DJ Alpha NRG
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yeaa

Post by DJ Alpha NRG » Fri Mar 10, 2006 2:28 pm

niice dude... i'm a very avid Trance music producer.. I love learning new things in ableton
- Alpha NRG

Sten
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Post by Sten » Wed May 10, 2006 3:22 am

bump to this great thread. Extra Boy is another decent vocal removal/isolation plug, but I still get pretty mediocre effects with it.

technochris81
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Post by technochris81 » Fri Jul 28, 2006 10:31 am

i listened to aphex twin's window licker using this trick. it seems like everything he pans is really really low volume, then all the sudden some sound comes out of nowhere really really loud.

does this mean that the quieter things were barely panned in the first place? or just that the BANG! noises are actually that much louder?

-chris

djgroovy
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Post by djgroovy » Thu Sep 28, 2006 9:20 pm

Brilliiiiant :o

Hyperion
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Post by Hyperion » Thu Sep 28, 2006 11:44 pm

AdamJay wrote:... it can also be used to isolate sounds only in the middle, but the effect is not as drastic, since panned sounds do cross the mono plane.


So, leaving the math aside, because it lessens my understanding, it is as good as impossible to isolate a clear mono sound except for a microscopic filtering out of frequencies from stereo sources which cross the mono plane.

Is it true then that when widening the stereo field and letting disappear the perfect mono plane the crossing frequencies from the stereo sounds also are removed?

Greetings
I don't chat.

DeadlyKungFu
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Post by DeadlyKungFu » Fri Sep 29, 2006 5:39 am

Beautiful, wow, thank you. Literally speachless. This changes the whole game.

I have so much to learn. Thank you all, truly. :D :D :D

That's why 1 knob tunes out the bass, I had no idea why, RTFM.

I didn't know how to properly use the utility plug-in, or what the width setting really did, let alone how to apply it. I just used it for gain.

Let alone going through all the tricks in the TnT sticky tips. Pearls everywhere. This is a diamond. 10,000+ views, no doubt

So the Phz L/R buttons put the FAR (foul line) left or right signals 180 degrees out of phase, so when you span the width fully and put on the same Phz for both plug ins, they cancel and there's no sound. The Left and Right buttons make the signal mono left or right so the trick doesn't work except to pan out the whole signal.

<big ass lightbulb goes off>
I need a cigarette... Not as good as sex, but it didn't put any viruses on my computer and i don't have to buy it breakfast and show feelings in the morning.

From the early posts I take it that bass is panned dead center due to proper mastering techniques, bass being monophonic, and/or something about pannning bass skips needles? Crazy shit, dying to learn more.

Very cool putting up a sample .als, thanks!

affeltaffel
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Re: "The Utility Trick" - How to Isolate sounds

Post by affeltaffel » Sun Nov 12, 2006 3:16 pm

AdamJay wrote:here it is, first mentioned at the Indianapolis Ableton Live User Group meeting on April 5th, 2005 as the "Tip of the Month".

http://www.djadamjay.com/files/UtilityTrick.zip (1.9MB)
in this .zip you will find UtilityRemix.als and the UtilityRemix Sounds folder.

This .als demonstrates how you can use the Width knob of 1 Utility Plugin to remove any material that was not originally panned in your source material. By turning the Width knob all the way to 200%, Mono material (material that does not sit more on the right side or the left side, but exactly evenly down the middle) is removed from the mix.

This is great for remixing vinyl based dance music as generally everything under 500hz is mono in this music. Because if you pan these Bass sounds, the needle will skip off the record. Thus, this trick is great for removing Bass from a track without using an EQ that would remove frequencies from other sounds as well. You can really isolate sounds from other sounds. Its all about CONTROL.
The simplicity of this makes it easy to do in the studio, or on stage for Live remixing.

So, turn the Width all the way up on the 1st Utility Plugin, and then engage the 2nd Utility Plugin to boost the output, and make the result mono so its not crazily spread out in the stereo field.

enjoy!!!
Hi! Just wanted to say that the link doesn't work anymore. Anyone that can help? :)

ericguse
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Re: "The Utility Trick" - How to Isolate sounds

Post by ericguse » Fri Nov 24, 2006 8:25 am

Please someone can upload the file again. Unfortunately UtilityTrick.zip is no longer available. Thanx

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